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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#561

Post by j2bax »

bluGill wrote: post #435
zirgs wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wondering if we could build devices that assist with takeoff - like it's done on aircraft carriers. Could save some energy that way.

We could, but it would require new aircraft. Passenger aircraft are not designed for that kind of stress. I'm not sure that passengers would like that much acceleration either. I don't know that it would actually save anything though. Aircraft of carriers are held back while they throttle the engine to full throttle. Only after the pilot is convinced the engine will run long enough to take off do they release the bra…

How about you elevator passengers up to a runway that is a thousand feet up in the air. Then use electric lines on the runway to power the takeoff to avoid using any onboard batteries until airborne. Just daydreaming here a bit!

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#562

Post by fwungy »

>no mention of cost

Means expensive chemistry.

>targeting aircraft first

Means expensive chemistry

>no mention of durability

If they were highly durable this would be an important feature so they're likely not.

Sounds like these are going to be expensive special application batteries.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#563

Post by mdp2021 »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #477
ed_balls wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ~27% of the energy required to run a normal car It would be slightly worse in colder climates. I wish car manufactures would allow for easy installation for range extenders in the front trunk. I'd be a great source of heat for the heat pump. Range anxiety would be gone. No carbon tax since it would be an aftermarket solution. It seems Mazda MX-30 r-ev is the only thing you can buy.

> Range anxiety would be gone. Range anxiety is an affliction more common among those who do not drive an EV than those who do.

> is an affliction more common among

That is a tautology... "Those who weigh the downside more remain in the alternative option." What did you want to mean?

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#564

Post by rootusrootus »

walrus01 wrote: post #250
leoedin wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big reason for this is thermodynamics. A conventional internal combustion engine car has to convert chemical energy to kinetic energy - the absolute best theoretical efficiency of this might be 70%, but in practice it's more like 30%. Electric cars have to pay the same thermodynamic penalty, but they pay it at the power station (In practice, thanks to renewables, not all the electricity used to charge a car will…

> A modern series hybrid like a Toyota Prius is effectively an electric vehicle and a gas generator (which means it has the same efficiency gains due to regenerative braking). That gets 52 mpg, which is about 493 Wh/km. Wait, does a new prius or something like a hyundai ioniq (also 52-53 mpg) not have the internal combustion engine mechanically coupled to the transmission and drive wheels anymore?

Nope, still parallel hybrids. The closest we've gotten to a true series hybrid was the Chevy Volt, but even then, it was technically a parallel hybrid.

I also take issue with anyone calling a hybrid 'effectively an electric vehicle.' That is only true for PHEVs. A regular hybrid still gets exactly 100% of it's energy from gasoline.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#565

Post by crazygringo »

Swannie wrote: post #196
mcapodici wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with jet fuel on a plane. They calculate the amount to fuel carefully to be efficient but safe. Too much and the plane is heavier and uses more fuel. Too little and you might run out if put into a holding then diverted. Obviously jet fuel is what it is it wont get more dense but a more efficient engine means less fuel needed means even more efficiency and so on.

The Qantas 16h 45m flight from Dallas to Sydney aims for Brisbane, and then turns to Sydney as the plane approaches Australia. (10th longest commercial route in the world). This allows the plane to land at Brisbane and refuel if the calculations are done wrong. Couldn't find stats on how many times it's had to land in BNE. Pre-COVID, it was apparently common to try and off-load passengers to single stopover flights t…

Knowing nothing about it, what causes fuel calculations to be done wrong?

Is it math errors, or uncertainty about exact weight of cargo and passengers, or wind conditions different from predicted, or something else?

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#566

Post by omgomgomgomg »

cultureswitch wrote: post #204
theK wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups. Just look at what happened to the EU’s ice ban for personal vehicles. Spoiler: while new gasoline burning cars are technically banned after 2035 it will be completely legal to sell new gasoline burning cars by labelling them e-fuel only…

The timelines for ICE bans within a decade are ridiculous from a technology and market standpoint and terrible for the environment. The best car technology is the one you don't use much. And we already have decades of cars in good enough condition to be driven weekly rather than daily. EVs will barely scratch the surface of environmental issues with transportation. And they will create a new range of supply problems…

I dont know, but London is pushing very agressively towards that goal.

I am not sure if its a good idea, nothing seems to be a good idea in London, but the congestion charge and the newer diesel charges surely add up.

And predictably, some of the worst usual suspects are exempt.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#567

Post by adrianmonk »

bluGill wrote: post #451
matsemann wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In much of the world, owning a car at all puts you above "poor people". While owning a car is sadly needed in some parts of the world to get to work or even the stores (US..), it's a massive financial burden for most people. If you care for poor people, thinking about how people can go about their daily lives without spending thousands of dollars each year on owning a car would be the way to go.

If you can afford a car you are not poor. In the US (and Europe) there are almost no poor people. What we call poor are still middle class by world standards.

This is getting away from the relevant definition of poor. The person above was talking about how people will vote, so what matters here is whether they're poor relative to other voters within their own country.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#568

Post by mwint »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #554
ilyt wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UAVs also have higher current requirement, and that means more weight "wasted" for chonkier electrodes Car batteries aren't pulling 50C worth of current

Don't car batteries also have very high current requirements? Turning over an engine takes an enormous amount of power.

GP is probably talking about EV main batteries, not the lead-acid 12v accessory/starter batteries.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#569

Post by redleader55 »

baq wrote: post #46
bagels wrote: post #2

"CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg which it says will go into mass production this year" This is a lot more credible than most of the battery stories, because CATL is already producing a ton of batteries, lending them some credibility. This is a little under 2x the density of current batteries.

My plan to buy an EV in the next five years may be realistic after all. Happy!

Even if we get this high energy density, I'm skeptical about its utility/impact. Right now we are barely able to mine enough lithium for our current batteries, which are used for phones and a few (percent-wise) EVs. As far as I know, and please correct me, we need to increase production by at least 8x for 5-10 rare earth elements in order for everyone to use EVs. Where are these extra rare minerals going to come from?

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#570

Post by omgomgomgomg »

bluGill wrote: post #439
sveme wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should read up on what ICE bans in countries where they are implemented actually means. Hint: You can continue to use the ICE vehicle you bought in 2034 in the EU until infinity.

> You can continue to use the ICE vehicle you bought in 2034 in the EU until infinity. Sure, if you can find fuel. By 2034 EVs will be enough of the market that gas stations are already closing (remember today new cars are 10 year old used cars, and there is every reason to think EVs will be half of all cars). There is still one on every corner, so you might not see this trend, but it will be in the statistics. By 20…

I dont see how in 10 years most cars will be evs, when the ev sales percentage is 12% as of now. Which equals to 9.5% of electric vehicles on the road today. The increase in ev sales is in the low single digits per year, the math just doesnt check out.
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