Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

thedriven.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 919 posts

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#351

Post by Technotroll »

pjc50 wrote: post #316
sgt wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though that makes me think that hybrids have a real future. Or hydrogen fuel cells. Anything that doesn't require charging directly from the grid all the time, because although parts of the USA and Norway are ready for that, it's very tricky to get right globally. Maybe hybrids like the Prius get to be so efficient that such cars will have a truly negligible impact on global warming.

Hybrids that emit carbon will still have a huge effect on global warming, simply because there are so many cars. There isn't a huge amount of headroom for efficiency increases, so you're only going to get anywhere near "net zero" by charging from a renewable grid nearly all the time.

According to this chart, road transport sector is responsible for 11.9 % of greenhouse emissions wordlwide.^1 Could you please expand upon how you define the huge effect it will have on global warming? Don't you think it's better to focus on other parts of that pie, where it's easier to implement widespread savings and change?

^1: https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#352

Post by lilililililili »

qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #310
masklinn wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the absolute best theoretical efficiency of this might be 70% While ICE are heat engines with a theoretical limit of 70%, they’re more specialised subsets described by the Otto (gas) and Diesel (… diesel) cycles, which have a much lower theoretical maximum. Just plugging the temperature ranges into Carnot will give you a Carnot limit of 50%, and using Otto will yield 46% ( https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/98992…

Wrap the combustion engine with a heatpump to a small steam engine?

[dead]

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#353

Post by boxed »

krasin wrote: post #19
idontwantthis wrote: post #4

Why does 500wh/kg make electric aircraft possible? 6x less than kerosene. Is that the break even on cost if you can source very cheap electricity? Seems like it would still annihilate the payload/range.

Let's consider Cessna-172S ([4]). Its characteristics: - 130 kW engine, Lycoming_O-360 that weighs 117 kg. For comparison, an electric motor of this range would weigh 11-13 kg (at 10-12 kW/kg, [2]). That saves 100+ kg weight immediately and we can put 50+ kWh batteries instead. - It carries up to 200 liters of kerosene ([3]), which weighs 164 kg. We can place 82 kWh of batteries instead. - The engine consumes around…

A combustion engine itself has a lot more weight than an electric motor too.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#354

Post by lilililililili »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #232
tecleandor wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cruze is way better than that anyway, you'd need to be in an excruciating traffic jam to get that low mileage. Well, my 12 years old (gas) Honda Fit does +40MPG being very "pedal happy" and near 50 driving normally, and my dad's 20 years old (diesel) Citroen Xsara Picasso does around 60MPG

20 years ago was kind of a sweet spot for diesel automobile fuel efficiency. Emissions were terrible though. Then they tried to clean up the tail pipe emissions and lost most of the efficiency gains.

[dead]

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#355

Post by lilililililili »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #103
0xy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're unlikely to succeed because if the massive tax on poor people (ICE bans) actually gets implemented, all of the poor people who are forced to buy an unaffordable EV will vote for populists promising to unwind the bans.

Poor people drive buses, not cars.

[dead]

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#356

Post by theK »

crote wrote: post #334
theK wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core of the matter is this: They are only LABELED as e-fuel cars. You can run them just fine with classical fuels. EDIT: emphasis

A lot of gas stations have differently-sized nozzles for regular gasoline and diesel, and the fueling opening in the car is sized so that a diesel nozzle does not fit in a gasoline car. They should do something similar for e-fuel so people don't "accidentally" fuel them with classical fuel.

What you are forgetting is that diesel engines only work with diesel and gasoline ones only work with gasoline. This creates a natural incentive for the customers to not mix this up.

In the e-fuel vs trad-fuel story you do not have that incentive.

What you DO have, is an incentive to actually do the switch. Projections put e-fuel production costs at a 1500% premium over fossil fuels and wide spread availability is actually a hard scientific problem as even the announced global production capacity* of e-fuels is only enough for a few thousand vehicles.

* Apparently, to date, the biggest portion of announced e-fuel production misses either an energy provider or financial backing or both.

A good German summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnrudYCzh2E

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#357

Post by jaystraw »

goodpoint wrote: post #296
0xy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're unlikely to succeed because if the massive tax on poor people (ICE bans) actually gets implemented, all of the poor people who are forced to buy an unaffordable EV will vote for populists promising to unwind the bans.

> massive tax on poor people (ICE bans) Don't blame EV and or the environment for this. Car culture in the US created unsustainable cities and destroyed public transportation. Car ownership itself has always been a regressive tax.

ICEs also supplement power grids and enable agriculture. The car is not the centerpiece of fossil fuels helping the poor

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#358

Post by brianwawok »

oblio wrote: post #142
msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

That's about the same efficiency as every modern EV. This is not Tesla specific. Electric motors are very efficient, regenerative braking helps, EVs are designed to be super aerodynamic, etc.

Compare the mpge of different cars. Tesla tends to win even between EVs.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#359

Post by vidarh »

audunw wrote: post #349
vidarh wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most flights are short haul. And they are, well, short. Which means, all of those are in scope for electrical planes. Exactly. In the EU, Eurocontrol (European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation) says 30.6% of flights in 2020 were 0-500km, roughly within the range of the Eviation Alice currently. A further 43.6% of flights in the EU are between 500 and 1500km. Source [1] > You don't have to cram hundreds…

It's not just about runway length. Noise reduction would also make it easier to use smaller local airports. Electric aircraft are already more quiet, but there's probably room for even more reduction by using ducted fans or toroidal propellers. We may also see a return to more of a hub-and-spoke model. Fly from a smaller, local airport close to you. Fly to some hub near the half-way point, switch to a plane that take…

The thought of a return to more of a hub-and-spoke model sounds like a total nightmare. It'd take a huge price difference before I'd consider that, personally (EDIT: As in, I usually check "direct flights only" or equivalent and only relent if the cost is ridiculously much higher). Then again my perspective is being near multiple large international airports, so maybe that might appeal to some.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#360

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

leoedin wrote: post #346
R0flcopt3r wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hybrids almost never emit carbon though. Because they're almost always running from the battery that you charged up from the wall before leaving home for your daily commute. And the daily commute is less, or maybe a little over the battery range. If it isn't then you have bought the wrong car, if you goal is carbon neutrality. You can use a smaller battery, which means using less rare materials that are very expensiv…

That's only true of plug-in hybrids. "Hybrid" just means a car with an electric and ICE drive train. Most hybrids aren't plug-in hybrids. They have no ability to charge their battery except from the engine.

right but that's easy to change.
Post reply on HN