Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

thedriven.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 919 posts

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#211

Post by VilleOr »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #175
buro9 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article mentions aircraft multiple times. Once a range is achieved through available energy, reducing weight is a goal. The energy is more useful the less weight you need to move as then you can shave off a bit more weight as less energy was needed. Your car may not need this as much, an aircraft does.

Average plane cannot fly with batteries; the weight is still too high compared to jet fuel and the range is too short. Only short flights of up to 1000 km and 90 minutes will be in reach initially, jet fuel minus efficiency loses is still over 3000 Wh/kg, 6 times more than these new batteries.

Average US flight trip is about 800 km (~500 miles). If even half of all flights were powered by electricity, the impact on emissions would be huge.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#212

Post by grosun »

VulgarExigency wrote: post #203
maccard wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more confusingly, what the US calls a gallon isn't the same as what other countries call the gallon. It's about a 20% difference.

Not that confusing, only the US measures fuel in gallons, isn't it? Everyone else just uses liters.

The UK may be the most confusing; fuel is sold in litres, but fuel efficiency is expressed in MPG, and furthermore the gallons aren't the same as US gallons. I guess at least the miles are the same!

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#213

Post by Aromasin »

VulgarExigency wrote: post #203
maccard wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more confusingly, what the US calls a gallon isn't the same as what other countries call the gallon. It's about a 20% difference.

Not that confusing, only the US measures fuel in gallons, isn't it? Everyone else just uses liters.

The UK also does for some God awful reason (especially infuriating considering it's sold by the litre at the petrol station).

In the United States and some other countries, a gallon is equal to 128 fluid ounces or 3.785 liters. Meanwhile, in the United Kingdom and some Commonwealth countries, a gallon is equal to 160 fluid ounces or 4.546 liters.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#214

Post by frant-hartm »

foepys wrote: post #98
mmikeff wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not banning per se, just stopping sales of new. So there will still be plenty of used ICE cars knocking around for a good few years.

Will there be gas stations, though?

> plenty of used ICE cars

Hence plenty of customers for gas stations

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#215

Post by xerxiii »

mavhc wrote: post #171
century19 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And will there be enough power stations to generate all the electricity?

Yes, but what will they be powered by?

not sure why you're so confident of that when we don't even produce enough power for our current needs let alone powering millions of cars

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#216

Post by geysersam »

doetoe wrote: post #91
0xy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're unlikely to succeed because if the massive tax on poor people (ICE bans) actually gets implemented, all of the poor people who are forced to buy an unaffordable EV will vote for populists promising to unwind the bans.

Isn't it populist to call this a tax on poor people?

It's less populist and more a talking point. It's the perfect cover. "We can't stop allowing the rich to destroy the climate because we care so much about poor people."

In '35 it's doubtful ICE will be cheaper than EV anyway (look at price development over last decade...) Banning ICE will speed up this development.

Climate change will disproportionately affect people who are already vulnerable.

Tax carbon emissions and use the money to provide good affordable alternatives (public transportation) for people who don't afford an EV today.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#217

Post by phreeza »

Someone wrote: post #29
krasin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's consider Cessna-172S ([4]). Its characteristics: - 130 kW engine, Lycoming_O-360 that weighs 117 kg. For comparison, an electric motor of this range would weigh 11-13 kg (at 10-12 kW/kg, [2]). That saves 100+ kg weight immediately and we can put 50+ kWh batteries instead. - It carries up to 200 liters of kerosene ([3]), which weighs 164 kg. We can place 82 kWh of batteries instead. - The engine consumes around…

The airplane would be a bit heavier at landing, though. I expect that will require a somewhat heavier landing gear. I also think taking out the weight of the tank is unfair if you don’t add weight for the structures for holding the batteries. But yes, for many smaller planes, we’re close to flying electric on shorter flights being economically feasible.

The maximum take off and landing weights for a Cessna 172 are the same, so I don't think a heavier landing gear would be required.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#218

Post by mnw21cam »

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

Maths check - 31mpg is 11km/l. (31mi/gal * 1.60934mi/km / 4.54609l/gal)

Having said that, my 13-year-old normal sized diesel car does 60mpg in normal use.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#219

Post by matsemann »

vixen99 wrote: post #208
matsemann wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so important for you to be able to pollute a bit more when commuting?

Important also to consider the degree to which we choose (while improving our own environment) to get others to pollute on our behalf and suffer the consequences - as in the extensive environmental damage caused by lithium and cobalt mining. This is not an argument against EV or renewables by any means but let's ensure we maintain a realistic assessment of all pros and cons. Up to 70% of cobalt is produced in the Con…

Yup, best would be to get rid of the car dependence. Make walk-able cities for people, not cities designed for cars.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#220

Post by mdp2021 »

matsemann wrote: post #101
paganel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have a choice because, on paper, we do have a choice in choosing those countries’ politicians. I know I’ll never give my vote to a politician keen on banning gasoline cars. It’s sadly also true that the technocrats actually taking those decisions are a lot less directly accountable, but nothing that a second “yellow vests” movement won’t be able to fix.

Why is it so important for you to be able to pollute a bit more when commuting?

First of all, the poster was writing about the legal elimination of an option, which is does not fit such reduction.

Some people value the qualities that the current (pun happened) alternatives do not offer: they are inadequate for some use cases. This includes long travel and refuelling in minutes.

Furthermore, since societies are now suffering an epidemic of lunacy, electric cars can be extreme noise pollutants, because insane manufacturers and users have turned them into a loud cacophonic concert - I have seen them. They can be unbearable.

They also seem to be internet connected in a staggering amount of cases, and many refuse to drive "a smartphone with wheels", or more explicitly a madness with uselessly installed security holes and privacy compromisers. This is especially relevant for The Car, the device that was built for deliverance - "our way to escape", as Karl Kraus said.

Post reply on HN