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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#141

Post by nickpp »

solarengineer wrote: post #90
paganel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have a choice because, on paper, we do have a choice in choosing those countries’ politicians. I know I’ll never give my vote to a politician keen on banning gasoline cars. It’s sadly also true that the technocrats actually taking those decisions are a lot less directly accountable, but nothing that a second “yellow vests” movement won’t be able to fix.

Could you help us understand why you would like to keep buying gasoline cars? (Edit: I see that you are being down voted. Perhaps elaborating on your desire to continue to be able to buy gasoline cars might help clarify your position better)

Some people like freedom of choice, I guess. Like in a democracy, where you can vote whatever candidate you like, except here is with your wallet. Others like dictatures.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#142

Post by oblio »

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

That's about the same efficiency as every modern EV. This is not Tesla specific.

Electric motors are very efficient, regenerative braking helps, EVs are designed to be super aerodynamic, etc.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#144

Post by bsaul »

rippercushions wrote: post #113
elevaet wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> battery with 500 Wh/kg Wow, that's amazing, creeping up towards the energy density of gasoline at around 1200 Wh/kg Of course you don't have to lug around the spent gasoline after you've used it, but that's really the problem too innit?

Yes, it would seem preferable to reuse the same energy storage over and over again, as opposed to digging it out of the ground at huge expense, shipping it across the world, and then spreading it out into the environment as a cloud of toxic particles after one use.

your analogy doesn't old : ice cars reuse their tank.

it's not nitpicking, electricity production has a cost. It's just a different cycle of production / pollution.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#145

Post by wcoenen »

0xy wrote: post #65
Akronymus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have a choice in the matter as more and more countries are thinking of/implementing ICE bans in the near future.

They're unlikely to succeed because if the massive tax on poor people (ICE bans) actually gets implemented, all of the poor people who are forced to buy an unaffordable EV will vote for populists promising to unwind the bans.

The cheap EVs aren't here yet, but the technology has the potential to eventually become cheaper than ICE. 30% of EV cost is currently in the battery, and this will drop.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#146

Post by Glawen »

mpreda wrote: post #105
paganel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have a choice because, on paper, we do have a choice in choosing those countries’ politicians. I know I’ll never give my vote to a politician keen on banning gasoline cars. It’s sadly also true that the technocrats actually taking those decisions are a lot less directly accountable, but nothing that a second “yellow vests” movement won’t be able to fix.

I on the other hand, I applaud the politicians who had the guts to push the ICE car sales ban against the push-back of the established cars manufacturers. ICE cars are such a nuisance in cities by polluting the air. I look forward to a time when my children will be able to enjoy clean air in the cities.

I call this egoism. Modern ecologism just aims to make a nice walled garden around their voters, they don't care what is happening outside this garden. In the reality, other parts of the country/earth is getting polluted to produce the goods.

I much prefer the older ways with polluting factory in the city, at least everyone could see what it takes to provide each good, and share its cost. The current way of doing things is to ban everything, which force manufacturers to produce elsewhere in the world and import it. Plus we are loosing knowledge in the process.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#147

Post by oblio »

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #129
elevaet wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> battery with 500 Wh/kg Wow, that's amazing, creeping up towards the energy density of gasoline at around 1200 Wh/kg Of course you don't have to lug around the spent gasoline after you've used it, but that's really the problem too innit?

Various theoretical energy densities of batteries and gasoline: lead acid 123 Wh/kg lithium ion 250 Wh/kg zinc-oxygen 1,084 Wh/kg sodium-oxygen 1,605 Wh/kg lithium-sulfur 2,600 Wh/kg magnesium-oxygen 6,800 Wh/kg aluminium-oxygen 8,100 Wh/kg lithium-air 11,140 Wh/kg gasoline 12,700 Wh/kg from 2022, Asad A. Naqvi et. al., Aprotic lithium air batteries with oxygen-selective membranes , Table 1, https://link.springer.com…

I wonder how close to mass production those intermediary technologies are.

Bumping the energy density closer to something like lithium-sulfur would probably make 95% of ICE-based technology scrap heap tech.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#148

Post by Triesault »

datadeft wrote: post #102

> World’s largest battery maker announces major breakthrough in energy density > This is a little under 2x the density of current batteries. Anything less than a ~400x increase is a minor breakthrough based on my expectations. I would like to charge my phone once a year.

Do you not feel this is an unreasonable expectation? I wouldn’t think we would ever get to the point where phones are only charged once a year. This assumes that power consumption would not increase over time.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#149

Post by dx034 »

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

225 Wh/km is even high for most routes and cars. Unless you drive fast on motorways or in cold climate, it's often easy to get to 150 Wh/km (15 kwh/100km as often displayed).

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#150

Post by rvz »

Finally. A proper engineering breakthrough deservedly getting recognition here.

Unlike the mass in-flux of low effort GPT-laden BS promoted by the generative AI grifters.

We need more of these foundational breakthroughs and less from the generative AI hype squad.

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