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Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

thedrive.com

151–160 of 176 posts

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#151
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naw, it's not the exception. Got my license in California, instructor skipped the freeway part of the drive test which is mandatory. Moved to Oregon, new licensees require both a written and a drive test but the DMV skipped them both because I already had an out-of-state (California) license. Driver licenses are literally stupid easy to get here in the US.

In California Highway driving for cars is required for special drives only i.e. can't read charts, or tickets.

You would be wrong, the handbook (and presumably the law it derives from) states (or at least stated when I took the test) freeway driving is a mandatory part of the driving test.

I asked the instructor why we skipped it, and they said it was because the freeway portion "is too dangerous for the instructors".

I had a good chuckle that day.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#152
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naw, it's not the exception. Got my license in California, instructor skipped the freeway part of the drive test which is mandatory. Moved to Oregon, new licensees require both a written and a drive test but the DMV skipped them both because I already had an out-of-state (California) license. Driver licenses are literally stupid easy to get here in the US.

I'm in Oregon as well and my understanding is if you have an existing valid license you can skip, but that's different if you've never had one or yours is expired. I had to do a driving test in my mid 20s because I lived car free downtown for a number of years and when my license expired just got an id card as replacement out of laziness.

The handbook did say the driving test could be optional for out-of-state licensees, but it was clear that the written test was mandatory.

The DMV lady who handled my application skipped them both anyway. ┐( ̄ー ̄)┌

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#153
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I doesn't seem like the more difficult testing actually helps much. Brazil has a higher rate than the US, but you wouldn’t be able to tell based on the testing there. Mine was: - Backup parking - Parallel parking - Drive around the city with an examiner for a few minutes Any mistakes in the first two and you’re disqualified. You have to get them right the first time with no corrections (or at least that was the…

I only had one driving test when I was 15 in Mississippi. Drive around the court house block, no parallel parking. I moved to Washington the next year and only had to take the written test, and I’ve seen to be able to miss driver tests ever since even though my license has lapsed twice, the last time for 7 years. I’m now back in Washington (Seattle), and I’m shocked at how often people run stop signs here.

And despite the easy testing I suspect you have not had any major traffic incidents.

That seems to be the way it goes in the US.

Running stop signs is not a sign of a bad driver, most stop signs in the US are not necessary (and really should be yield signs, except that's not legal to do that for no good reason).

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As long as you're not losing traction on your rear wheels" is the key part. The more you brake, the more weight shifts forward, which results in less traction available to use to recapture. People vastly overestimate how much traction is available at the rear during braking, and running out of traction at the rear typically results in the car spinning (especially in an EV with low rotational inertia with most of the…

This is obvious to anyone who's changed the brakes on their car. Front brakes are massive compared to the rear.

...or to anyone who ever rode a bicycle or motorbike with front and back brakes. Pull (bicycle) or press (motorbike) the back brake hard and the rear wheel tends to skid. Pull the front brake hard and the thing wants to somersault. The back brake is needed to stabilise the vehicle but the front brake does the real work.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#155
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the land of the free, you can drive with a parent at 15 and get a license at 16 with zero required classes or real world driving test, with just your parent’s signature, a 70% pass rate on a written test and $25. That’s how I got my license in TX at least. I think this is a bad thing, fwiw. The standards of driver safety training here are incredibly low.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver%27s_licenses_in_the_Uni... says you can get a learner’s permit at 14 years old that doesn’t appear to have restrictions in Alaska, Arkansas, and one with restrictions (e.g. only daytime driving, limited # of passengers, only driving to school) in Iowa, Kansas, North Dakota, and South Dakota. It seems there’s a strong correlation between population density and minimum age one can g…

In Mars, a planet entirely populated by robots, the minimum age for a driver's license is 0

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#156
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter the powertrain layout if you lose traction on the front, ie understeer, you need to create a weight shift forward to restore traction. I've done a couple rally instructional clinics, and one of the introductory drills they spent a fair bit of time on was just a giant circle of cones set up on dirt. You go around it faster and faster until the car breaks free into a slide, then you learn how to control and m…

In Norway, this is basic driver education. The drivers' license there requires "slippery road" training, which involves a more basic version of what you're describing.

I've done a course like that but i question the value. The few hours i spent sliding around on a slippery track 10 years ago didn't really embedd the skills to the point that i would know what to do if my cars got in a slide today. Most people don't get into situations like that enough to train the skills regularly.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#157

I live in a rural mountainous area. FWD cars have a huge advantage over anything RWD: traction going up hill. Nothings funnier than watching delivery trucks going up a giant hill backwards because it's the only way they can maintain traction.

> FWD cars have a huge advantage over anything RWD: traction going up hill.

You got that backwards.

Forward acceleration transfers weight to the rear axle. The harder you accelerate, the more weight transfers to the rear, which means the more traction is available to the rear wheels, less to the front wheels.

It's easy to visualize if you think of the case of extreme acceleration such as in a motorcycle or drag race car - the front wheel(s) lift off the ground entirely and thus have zero traction.

Going uphill only accentuates this even more, so FWD is going to be at an even greater disadvantage.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#158

Rear-wheel-drive vehicles have traction problems on slick roads. Losing traction on your front wheels is terrifying. I've had this happen before as I have had the opposite fishtailing with front-wheel-drive. Losing rear-wheel traction is something that can be compensated, but I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction.

> I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction

Sure you can. A tire, any tire on any axle, will start to slide iff you're asking it to do too much work vs. the available traction. That's it. You can always do one (or both) of two things: ask the tire to do less, or increase the traction available to it. You have controls available to change both of these variables (steering and throttle).

Accelerating transfers weight to the rear wheels and lifting off the throttle (deceleration) transfers weight to the front wheels. The steering controls how much work you're asking the front wheels to do.

Once you grok this, it follows that RWD is easier and more controllable at the limit of traction due to separation of controls. The steering controls front traction and the throttle controls rear traction (but I'm simplifying, as the throttle also controls weight transfer thus traction on both axles). In FWD cars you have less fine-grained control since the throttle and steering are both using up traction of the front axle and the rear wheels are merely along for the ride. In a RWD car you can steer with the throttle without changing steering wheel angle.

All of this is car control 101. Which I wish was taught in the US as a prerequisite for getting a drivers license but sadly it is not, so approximately nobody has any experience in how to control a car when traction is less than optimal (rain, snow, oil on the street, etc.)

I urge everyone who drives to take a few car control courses to learn these basics. It can save your life, or the life of others, or maybe just some car repair bills. Totally worth it.

You can reason about the physics when reading about it online but there is no way to train your muscle memory to do the right thing other than by actually spending time practicing these skills in the real world, ideally with a car control instructor next to you.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#159
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came in a little hot trying to catch a yellow light on a left hand turn (US) and powerslid a Miata perfectly across 4 lanes... my second month of owning one and driving stick. That's the day I fell in love with 50/50 weight distribution, rear wheel drive, and low and light weight.

Please don't drive recklessly on public roads. Take it to a track if you want to go 'hot'. You'll have more fun and not put others in danger.

[deleted]

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't drive recklessly on public roads. Take it to a track if you want to go 'hot'. You'll have more fun and not put others in danger.

It doesn't sound to me like it was intentional

> trying to catch a yellow light

It sounds very intentional and reckless.

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