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SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

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Re: SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

#931

Post by JKCalhoun »

cpleppert wrote: post #277
sandworm101 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> People want to see 100% success in all things. But that isn't very economical. That sounds logical, but isn't really a thing in aerospace/space. Complicated high-energy systems have thousands of failure points. So to have any chance of success each failure point needs to be engineered below, by way of example, a 0.0001% chance of failure. That costs lots of money. But say one decides to accept more risk for less c…

That doesn't really apply here. The dynamics of stage separation on Starship are orders of magnitude more complex than anything used on any previous rocket. If you want to look at what failure looks like for a super large rocket compare it to the failed Soviet N1. This flight demonstrated better performance in a single test flight than every N1 test flight over years. The N1 suffered catastrophic failure after catast…

I feel like you danced around the wild success of the Saturn V a bit.

Re: SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

#932

Post by chuddington »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #524

I am really surprised at the negativity, it makes me want to stop coming here. How many here are actual engineers by profession? The default state of any novel engineering project is “not working”. Rockets are very hard among engineering projects. Failure here would look like the rocket doing nothing visible, perhaps a little bit of smoke. Neutral is the rocket exploding. Success is the rocket moving at all. The rock…

[dead]

Re: SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

#933

Post by svachalek »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #885
gvb wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the SpaceX feed they were waiting for the second stage to separate and light, and it didn't do either. So first question is why didn't it separate? T+00:16 - Shortly after liftoff, when the engine graphic first appears, three engines were out. https://youtu.be/-1wcilQ58hI?t=2721 T+00:28 - Sparks are seen in the engine exhaust and some flashes. https://youtu.be/-1wcilQ58hI?t=2733 T+00:40 - A fourth engine is marked…

Pretty solid reasoning. Pretty clear that correct attitude of the spacecraft would be a go/no-go for booster separation. Wonder if people heard the sonic boom on the ground. If it hit MaxQ and went past it then it would be supersonic at that point. Presumably they have two flight abort systems (one booster, one ship), a separation, even under non-ideal circumstances, could provide test data. The safety issue would be…

You can see the vapor ghosting off it when they call MaxQ which is a visual confirmation. I assume people could hear it on the ground too unless it's too high?

Re: SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

#934

Post by JKCalhoun »

dingosity wrote: post #347
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The test was a massive success. So happy to see starship clear the towers. The largest rocket ever built, larger than the Saturn V. Are you kidding me?

Elon was setting expectations a couple days ago when he said "Let's just not explode on the launch pad" or somesuch. In that sense, mission definitely accomplished. "Massive" success? Not sure I would go that far, but success of a massive project? Absolutely. It would have been nice to see the mission hit all it's objectives, but I'm sure they got quite a bit of data and operational experience. What would be a failur…

> Elon was setting expectations a couple days ago when he said "Let's just not explode on the launch pad"

That seems like such a low bar? One wonders if the engineers/management at SpaceX cringed when he said that.

Re: SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

#935

Post by JKCalhoun »

pohl wrote: post #122
mabbo wrote: post #61

People want to see 100% success in all things. But that isn't very economical. Compare the SLS to Starship. SLS has had a 100% success rate. One launch, one success. But it costs $2B per launch (and climbing) and has taken 12 years to get here. Plus, it's stealing pieces of the Space Shuttle, which was developed in the 70s over a long period of time. Starship will launch a half a dozen "failures" before they achieve…

Well said. On the other hand, the SLS — having a launch escape system and not requiring sophisticated acrobatics in order to reach land safely — is totally the ship I'd rather be on.

Maybe someone can explain to me why SpaceX lands their boosters?

I would think weight of fuel required to land booster + legs + steering fins would be much greater than a parachute or two and a water landing. That weight savings would be a cost savings as well as more payload that could be lifted (also a cost savings).

Would the booster be destroyed landing in the ocean by parachute?

Re: SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

#936

Post by scaramanga »

rootusrootus wrote: post #876
pfannkuchen wrote: post #524

I am really surprised at the negativity, it makes me want to stop coming here. How many here are actual engineers by profession? The default state of any novel engineering project is “not working”. Rockets are very hard among engineering projects. Failure here would look like the rocket doing nothing visible, perhaps a little bit of smoke. Neutral is the rocket exploding. Success is the rocket moving at all. The rock…

> I am really surprised at the negativity I would wager that a good part of that is just a reaction to the over-the-top "massive success!" posts.

He (capital H) said it had a 50% chance of blowing up on the launchpad.

It blew up ~on~ shortly after leaving the launchpad.

Media says "it blew up ~on~ shortly after leaving the launchpad".

1,000 commentators arrive on HN to say "I am disturbed by the media/public/fellow HNers lack of faith / lies / mischaracterisations / ignorance of hard engineering / etc."

What's sad is that, as the sun rises on the dawn of one of history's greatest men's greatest successes, it's completely overshadowed by His victimhood. And to such an extent that His success can scarcely be commented upon without also pointing out His victimhood.

What a world we live in.

Re: SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

#937

Post by gred »

octobus2021 wrote: post #872
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the thing that a lot of people are still stuck at is the NASA attitude of "we've spent a lot of money on this already, we Need to make sure it works first try". Whereas SpaceX is more like Kerbal Space Program in that if it blows up, at least you're having fun. And while they had some failures early on with their early rockets, the Falcon 9 is now a very reliable craft that's done dozens of successful mission…

I know I'm being nitpicky, but Falcon 9 completed 223 missions since 2010 with 221 being total success, and 60 missions completed in 2022 alone. So way more than "dozens".

Yeah, a few weeks ago they launched two in just one day. "Dozens", indeed :-)

Re: SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

#938

Post by josephg »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #715
wkat4242 wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting article. He doesn't really speak of a large hole in the ground and huge chunks of debris flying around though. More of the effects of the heat and sound energy on wildlife which is not quite as obvious. He raises some good points indeed, not sure why it was flagged at all.

Lately HN has been critical of dissent against certain ideas, with flagging and mass downvotes used to push certain narratives.

There has always been some of that on HN. But the ideas which get downvoted have slowly shifted over time.

I’ve been on HN for well over a decade. I remember it being more startup focused, and more libertarian politically. My perception is that it became a bit woke for awhile, but now the backlash to that sort of thinking has happened in earnest.

We have all the comments going back to the start of the site. I’d love to see an analysis of what HN believes and how it has changed over time as a new generation has joined the community.

Re: SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

#939

Post by scaramanga »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #524

I am really surprised at the negativity, it makes me want to stop coming here. How many here are actual engineers by profession? The default state of any novel engineering project is “not working”. Rockets are very hard among engineering projects. Failure here would look like the rocket doing nothing visible, perhaps a little bit of smoke. Neutral is the rocket exploding. Success is the rocket moving at all. The rock…

The irony is, I can hardly find the posts you are talking about since the comments section is flooded with posts lamenting on the unfair treatment of Musk, and those are the top voted posts.

So I mean, if you want to argue that HN doesn't have enough "weird nerds crawling out of the woordwork for any opportunity to cheerlead their heroo Musk" it's a point that appears to be refuting itself.

Re: SpaceX Starship rocket explodes minutes after launch from Texas

#940

Post by bandyaboot »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #715
wkat4242 wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting article. He doesn't really speak of a large hole in the ground and huge chunks of debris flying around though. More of the effects of the heat and sound energy on wildlife which is not quite as obvious. He raises some good points indeed, not sure why it was flagged at all.

Lately HN has been critical of dissent against certain ideas, with flagging and mass downvotes used to push certain narratives.

I read that article shortly before it was black-holed. When I was done, I wanted to read some of the discussion around it. When I saw that it was nowhere to be found, I distinctly remember thinking “what the hell is going on with this place?”
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