Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 176 posts

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#51

Post by frosted-flakes »

kenhwang wrote: post #47
Kirby64 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does FWD vs RWD matter for energy recapture in regen breaking? As long as you're not losing traction on your rear wheels during breaking, there's no difference in terms of energy captured in FWD vs RWD.

"As long as you're not losing traction on your rear wheels" is the key part. The more you brake, the more weight shifts forward, which results in less traction available to use to recapture. People vastly overestimate how much traction is available at the rear during braking, and running out of traction at the rear typically results in the car spinning (especially in an EV with low rotational inertia with most of the…

This is obvious to anyone who's changed the brakes on their car. Front brakes are massive compared to the rear.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#52

Post by singleshot_ »

PaulHoule wrote: post #8
singleshot_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RWD cars allow you develop a much higher degree of skill at driving because of the requirement to separately manage traction on the drive and steering axles.

For one thing, you can enter and maintain a drift in an FR car. In a FF car you can easily enter a drift but the car will either straighten out or go into a spin. I’d tell you about my tactics for going around corners fast in a FF car but I’d get downvoted…

I race a Honda on an oval track so I’m absolutely here for this conversation.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#53

Post by gnicholas »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #45
Kirby64 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does FWD vs RWD matter for energy recapture in regen breaking? As long as you're not losing traction on your rear wheels during breaking, there's no difference in terms of energy captured in FWD vs RWD.

The front brakes do most of the work. It is not the case, as you assume, that both front and rear contribute equally to braking. If you didn't use the front brakes, or even if you tried to have them apply the same force, the rear wheels would absolutely skid. If you want an extreme visual example, check out stunt cyclists who brake so hard the rear wheel comes off the ground. Pretty easy to see that the rear wheel is…

Bingo. When I was a kid, I once flipped my bike because I was only braking with the front. I learned not to do that, but to an extreme — I then braked almost always with just the back.

It wasn't until I got older and faster that I realized that braking just in the back is not as effective, since the braking action makes your nose dive and puts more weight over your front tire. I now brake with both sides, but always first in the back.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#54

Post by scottyah »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #51
kenhwang wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As long as you're not losing traction on your rear wheels" is the key part. The more you brake, the more weight shifts forward, which results in less traction available to use to recapture. People vastly overestimate how much traction is available at the rear during braking, and running out of traction at the rear typically results in the car spinning (especially in an EV with low rotational inertia with most of the…

This is obvious to anyone who's changed the brakes on their car. Front brakes are massive compared to the rear.

Also people who ride dirt bikes- the back will slide out fairly easily compared to the front (but using the front exclusively comes with some pretty big tradeoffs)

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#55

Post by skeeter2020 »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #51
kenhwang wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As long as you're not losing traction on your rear wheels" is the key part. The more you brake, the more weight shifts forward, which results in less traction available to use to recapture. People vastly overestimate how much traction is available at the rear during braking, and running out of traction at the rear typically results in the car spinning (especially in an EV with low rotational inertia with most of the…

This is obvious to anyone who's changed the brakes on their car. Front brakes are massive compared to the rear.

Or used any vehicle with independent front/rear braking like a motorcycle or bike. The rear is for fine tuning while the front is for actually stopping.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#56

Post by skeeter2020 »

gnicholas wrote: post #53
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The front brakes do most of the work. It is not the case, as you assume, that both front and rear contribute equally to braking. If you didn't use the front brakes, or even if you tried to have them apply the same force, the rear wheels would absolutely skid. If you want an extreme visual example, check out stunt cyclists who brake so hard the rear wheel comes off the ground. Pretty easy to see that the rear wheel is…

Bingo. When I was a kid, I once flipped my bike because I was only braking with the front. I learned not to do that, but to an extreme — I then braked almost always with just the back. It wasn't until I got older and faster that I realized that braking just in the back is not as effective, since the braking action makes your nose dive and puts more weight over your front tire. I now brake with both sides, but always…

My commuter bike only has a front brake. You can shift body position to make it pretty much impossible to go OTB. Meanwhile my DJ bike only has a rear brake, which at best "strongly suggests" you slow down.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#57

Post by SECProto »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #48
Syonyk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Snow tires don't hold a candle to... Yeah. They do. I've driven pretty much every combination of FWD, RWD, 4WD, and AWD, with and without snow tires, in a variety of winter conditions. The "other tires" were regular all seasons, not high performance summer tires or anything. RWD with all seasons is really bad in snow, and mine generally didn't leave the parking lot in winter, because it simply couldn't. When you ca…

I have a FWD and AWD variant of the same car in my driveway and call bullshit. Why is it so hard to believe that a product that advertises 30-50% improvement in traction results in a lesser improvement than doubling the area over which tractive force is applied? I used to drink the snow tire kool-aid until I bought a set for the FWD car of and realized that better straight line stopping distance and cornering ability…

Does your AWD car with summer tires brake better in icy conditions than your FWD?

> better straight line stopping distance and cornering ability don't actually help you because being able to controllably put power to the ground is still the bottleneck in the "is it reasonable to drive in these conditions" equation

I take this to mean the answer is no. I drive in serious winter conditions, and AWD with winter tires is great, but it doesn't matter how many wheels are applying traction when you slide into a ditch.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#59

Post by mrinterweb »

Rear-wheel-drive vehicles have traction problems on slick roads. Losing traction on your front wheels is terrifying. I've had this happen before as I have had the opposite fishtailing with front-wheel-drive. Losing rear-wheel traction is something that can be compensated, but I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#60

Post by dumbfounder »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #27

One of the big negatives to sportiness in FWD cars has always been torque steer. But that is due to unequal-length driveshafts, not strictly the FWD-ness. A FWD EV shouldn't suffer from torque steer. I do welcome RWD EVs, but let's not get carried away. Honda has demonstrated again and again that FWD vehicles are capable of very high track performance.

Very high performance != Fun. They are different. They say Miatas are fun to drive, and they are cheap, and therefore popular to race. But they are definitely not fast cars. I have never driven one, but I have always favored RWD cars, and never driven a FWD car that is anywhere near as fun. But that said, I haven't driven everything.
Post reply on HN