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US could soon approve MDMA therapy

nature.com

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Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#231

Post by Spivak »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #184
Spivak wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, antidepressants are way more complicated, they have more side effects, and have to be monitored carefully to not make the underlying issues that caused the patient to take them worse. Suicidal thoughts plus antidepressants that give you energy can give you the motivation to go through it. And despite not being categorized as addictive you can't stop taking them without wrecking your mental health until your bod…

> While at the same time despite being a controlled substance because they're supposedly so addictive people with ADHD forget to take adderall and with normal use you don't take it every day. This is incorrect: Normal use of stimulant medication is to take it regularly every day. We also have evidence from studies showing that the brain adapts to consistent dosing in order to counter some of the damaging oxidative ef…

> Normal use of stimulant medication is to take it regularly every day.

Yeah, that doesn't really track with the fact that non-extended release lasts about 6 hours and extended release lasts about 8. Every single doctor I have ever been to has told me to take it as needed and try to not take it if possible so I don't form a habit and build a tolerance. Doing this I've managed to stay on the same exact dose for years. I would be willing to chalk it up to doctor doing it wrong but I see people whose job is specifically to oversee ADHD patients' medication and they say the same thing.

It's technically possible to be under it's effects for your entire waking hours and overlap to smooth the comedown in the middle but it's never prescribed this way so you'll always be in a state of flux.

> and does not mirror the dosing protocol used in studies to determine long term safety [...] it creates an association between “I need to do work” and “I need more Adderall”

Both of these are absolutely true which is why the studies are silly since nobody takes stimulants this way. And I absolutely have that association but it leads me to take less not more. If I want to spend the day hyperfixating on a new video game I can and just skip it. I can wait until understimulation and executive dysfunction actually impacts me.

I know it's not what you mean but I still think "this medication is incredibly habit forming so make sure to take it habitually" is really funny.

> Pharmacies don’t generally hunt down doctors when a patient doesn’t get a refill.

It was my insurance company actually. They called my doctor to see if I was supposed to still be taking it, told him to reach out, and then called me and sent a whole informational pamphlet about why it's important to take it regularly.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#232

Post by achenet »

bratwurst3000 wrote: post #12
hiddencost wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're doing just fine with Rick Doblin at MAPS. To pull a quote from Hunter S Thompson: "We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the speed that fueled that 60's. That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously...…

I love this quote so much . It is rly nailing a certain view of the 60s and explains much of the coming 70s. There is also another quote in the book about reaching the high water mark and the wave coming back…. Awesomeness book about the end of the 60s

the wave speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUgs2O7Okqc

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#233

Post by QuercusMax »

refurb wrote: post #221
QuercusMax wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top two causes of under-18 death in the US are guns and cars.

Those stats call “children” 19 years old and younger. So all those 18 and 19 year old “children” gang bangers are included in the statistic.

And? Other countries don't have this problem.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#234

Post by specproc »

bnjms wrote: post #213
specproc wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only recreational. I've taken MDMA many times in my life and -- presumably like most people who have -- can see why it's got therapeutic potential. Honestly though, I'm not convinced about it in a clinical setting, unless there's a particularly severe issue that needs addressing. I reckon most people are best off just buying some, getting together with a couple of very good mates on a nice day, rolling out into the c…

I disagree about a clinical setting, though I think I mostly agree overall. Mainly I fear people will read this and mistake it for a defense of MDMA as a drug for going out with your mates. I think this can be helpful for some and very helpful for others but not as helpful as a clinical setting. Where a clinical setting is a therapists office and not a cold clinic room. I do think people would do just as well or bett…

It was a flippant but sincere defence of MDMA as a drug for hanging out with your mates.

Naturally, not applicable in all cases, but I guess my point is you can get a lot of benefit in that context.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#235

Post by AlecSchueler »

refurb wrote: post #218
AlecSchueler wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the homicide rate is still significantly higher where there is lax gun control right?

No, actually. Vermont has allowed people to carry a concealed weapons without a license - literally buy a handgun, stick it in your pants - and has had a consistently lower murder rate than Washington DC which banned handguns until recently.

I meant more in comparison to other nations in Europe for example. It's difficult to compare individual states within the US because of how guns travel across state lines.

https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/state-gun-laws-ma...

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#237

Post by AlecSchueler »

bheadmaster wrote: post #227
AlecSchueler wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point. I took the premise to be that there was already a higher trauma rate in the US based on the fact that there is so apparently so much medication given out for trauma related issues compared to other countries. This had been suggested above but I didn't look into it further. > How many lives are saved and traumas avoided through people's ability to defend themselves with guns Self defence with guns…

I'm not a psychologist, but intuitively, most trauma seem to have an element of helplessness in them. Being able to defend yourself and your loved ones with guns would therefore cause less trauma than having to wait for police to come, or just being hurt/seeing a loved one hurt/murdered in front of you. Still, we're stepping deep into the speculation area here, so I won't stand behind this argument very strongly.

Don't forget the community is the person who is being defended against. Using lethal force against someone has wide consequences.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#238

Post by vorpalhex »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #142
wnolens wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to read your journey. Glad you found a way through. I had a similar experience to the first half of your story. Was so unfulfilled in tech that I ended up quitting and took time off not working, trying lots of different things, getting very frustrated and depressed along the way. I did try LSD (ok, a lot of LSD) and instead of it helping me process/sort through/integrate some of my troubles it added new ones and…

I wish more people spoke about their negative experiences with psychedelics. It's a sobering and necessary counterpoint to most of what floods these threads of how it changed someone's life, but the "how" is largely ambiguous.

I find trip reports tend to be much more brutally honest than writeups aimed at normies.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#239

Post by krapp »

bheadmaster wrote: post #227
AlecSchueler wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point. I took the premise to be that there was already a higher trauma rate in the US based on the fact that there is so apparently so much medication given out for trauma related issues compared to other countries. This had been suggested above but I didn't look into it further. > How many lives are saved and traumas avoided through people's ability to defend themselves with guns Self defence with guns…

I'm not a psychologist, but intuitively, most trauma seem to have an element of helplessness in them. Being able to defend yourself and your loved ones with guns would therefore cause less trauma than having to wait for police to come, or just being hurt/seeing a loved one hurt/murdered in front of you. Still, we're stepping deep into the speculation area here, so I won't stand behind this argument very strongly.

The act of committing violence against another person with a weapon itself is traumatic. Most people can't simply turn off their instinct for empathy and kill another person in cold blood simply because the other is an "enemy," and not suffer psychological consequences, possibly even PTSD. Even police officers, professional killers that they are, have to go through mandatory counseling and assessment after a shooting.

Realistically, your argument isn't to lessen trauma, but to simply normalize it. Which is exactly what American culture already does.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#240

Post by vorpalhex »

specproc wrote: post #59
thejackgoode wrote: post #7

Can someone share any relevant experience with this? Best would be if you did it properly under supervision of clinical professional, or if you are a professional here, by any chance. Doesn’t matter if it’s US or not.

Only recreational. I've taken MDMA many times in my life and -- presumably like most people who have -- can see why it's got therapeutic potential. Honestly though, I'm not convinced about it in a clinical setting, unless there's a particularly severe issue that needs addressing. I reckon most people are best off just buying some, getting together with a couple of very good mates on a nice day, rolling out into the c…

> getting together with a couple of very good mates

I suspect the clinically depressed/ptsd impacted folks don't have "a couple good mates" who are appropriate trip sitters.

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