TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids • Hacker News Board

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#11

Post by Jochim » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:53 PM UTC

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

It's not true you can see for yourself:

https://douyin.com/

On TikTok you largely just get more of what you've already engaged with. If you're using the platform for porn you're going to get a lot of it. If you like and engage with scientific/political content you'll rarely, if ever, see a video of someone dancing.

edit:

It's anecdotal but having taken a look at TikTok's web feed: https://www.tiktok.com/foryou. The content there was less sexual than the purportedly sanitised Douyin.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#12

Post by analyst74 » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:53 PM UTC

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

That's completely untrue. I can't say if the algorithm is the same. In my short experience of using Douyin for the past couple weeks, I get zero education content, but a surprising amount of content about inequality and injustices.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#13

Post by kwere » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:55 PM UTC

Tik Tok is illegal in mainland China, the "local version" called douyin is heavily doctored to promote only positive messages. Ironic that CCP cry anti asian hate on the proposition to ban tik tok

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#14

Post by MuffinFlavored » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:55 PM UTC

analyst74 wrote: post #12

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

That's completely untrue. I can't say if the algorithm is the same. In my short experience of using Douyin for the past couple weeks, I get zero education content, but a surprising amount of content about inequality and injustices.

Devil's advocate: you'd need to be in both countries on different device IDs. If you go US -> visit to China, their algorithm "knows" this as opposed to "you are in China and have never been to US before". Just a guess.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#15

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

analyst74 wrote: post #12

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

That's completely untrue. I can't say if the algorithm is the same. In my short experience of using Douyin for the past couple weeks, I get zero education content, but a surprising amount of content about inequality and injustices.

Ah, yes, your anecdata is proof.

Not that OP's claims are proof - but your anecdata does not disprove it.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#16

Post by throwaway71271 » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

isnt any modern engagement optimized engine doing the same? like snapchat's discover feed garbage

what do people expect? if it learns what makes you stay on the platform it gives you more of the stuff that makes you stay

you are what you eat.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#17

Post by MuffinFlavored » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

> while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity.

Isn't the narrative "that's what the western world consumers more of/wants" versus "China values achievements and education more than debauchery and stupidity"?

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#18

Post by bootwoot » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

This is possible. But the the evidence in that link is Tucker Carlson. I don't think we can know whether this is actually happening and we're seeing a lot of speculation about what China could or would do given the power they have through moderation of TikTok.

The possibility of China abusing content moderation might be enough to throw out the app altogether. But the only "evidence" we currently have is guessing at what China might do and people in media amplifying that discomfort.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#19

Post by Hitton » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 3:00 PM UTC

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

I would think that CCP just forces them to penalize certain things (and maybe promote other things) and in the west they merely don't do that (both for engagement and to avoid getting canceled for censoring certain topics).

Compared to other social media it doesn't seem that "debauchery and stupidity" is more prominent there.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#20

Post by 4gotunameagain » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 3:00 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #17

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

> while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Isn't the narrative "that's what the western world consumers more of/wants" versus "China values achievements and education more than debauchery and stupidity"?

We are talking about kids. They will want what you teach them to want.

With parents working insane hours in the US and outsourcing the socialisation and education of kids to electronics and corporations with perverse incentives, with local communities practically gone in an urban lifestyle, we are raising generations of porn addicted dopamine junkies. The west is fucked.