Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

oceanservice.noaa.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

601–610 of 636 posts

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#601

Post by cubefox »

dguest wrote: post #457
cubefox wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That claim needs to be substantiated.

Which claim? The full transcript of the Feynman story is available online [1], you can search for "martian" to get right to the story. It's presented in the context of explaining CP symmetry, which says that physics is conserved under a parity (mirror reflection) plus charge inversion (matter -> antimatter) transformation. Of course it's only approximate [2]. I got the quote slightly differently from what is recorded…

So the claim is that CP violation would make it possible to define "left" without ever pointing at things? Of course then the question would be what this definition actually is.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#602

Post by cubefox »

qubidt wrote: post #451
cubefox wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That claim needs to be substantiated.

The assertion that it is possible or the attribution to Feynman? Scientific American [1] references Feynman's 4th Messenger lecture at Cornell: "Symmetry in Physical Law" (1964) [2] [3] [1] https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/degrees-of-freedom/gala... [2] https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/messenger.html [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7K1kXeK-tY

Sorry, I meant a hypothetical definition of "left".

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#603

Post by ethbr0 »

bcbrown wrote: post #598
ethbr0 wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the dictionary translation of words does not capture somewhat-subtle but sometimes important distinctions between words Good point. I have yet to see a dictionary that also provides delineation with similar-but-different words and describes the differences. That'd be very useful for language learners, as colloquial use often eschews definition in favor of socially common convention. I.e. "That word does mean that,…

I'm not certain that this is exactly what you're talking about, but one of my dictionaries (Webster's New International, 1916) includes this under the entry for Authentic, which brings me great joy: Authentic, Genuine. The prevailing sense of authentic is authoritative, trustworthy, with the implication of accordance with fact; as "confirmed both by legend and authentic record" (Froude); "assurances more or less auth…

Wow! I'd be fascinated how many person-hours went into that entry.

On the whole, Wikipedia et al. are improvements in comprehensiveness and timeliness, but god damn do the gems of prior methods still shine brightly.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#604

Post by hinkley »

dmurray wrote: post #220
hinkley wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any cabled ferries that go beyond line of sight?

Depends on the time of day and the weather.

Well I'm pretty sure you can see a dragon attack at night.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#605

Post by lambdatronics »

ethbr0 wrote: post #547
lancefisher wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters to sailors with respect to the wind is the angle which it meets the boat or the orientation of the boat with regard to the direction of the wind. For that there are dedicated names known as the points of sail which include: close hauled, close reach, beam reach, broad reach, run, and in irons. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_sail

Good point! :) But points of sail don't have any handedness, correct? I.e. they're mirrored on both sides of the wind. As mentioned in another comment, tacking (with its active directionality) is probably the closest to handed-terminology.

>But points of sail don't have any handedness, correct? I.e. they're mirrored on both sides of the wind.

The right-of-way rules in sailboat racing depend on who is on 'port tack' or 'starboard tack' (ie, they differentiate those mirrored halves). There's nothing physically special, though.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#607

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

morcheeba wrote: post #531
ethbr0 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With boats, others mentioned that wind provides its own frame, and there are separate words still for "left" and "right" in that frame. There's windward (towards/upwind) and leeward (away/downwind). Are there left and right too? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windward_and_leeward

Even without the wind, the separate words help. In crew (rowed) boats, people sit backwards. And then boats are stored on racks upside-down. It can get complicated!

And the British decide to make things more confusing by referring to the sides of the boat as strokeside and bowside.

Strokeside is always port, even if in that particular boat stroke's oar is actually on the starboard side- and even in a sculling boat!

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#608

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

hnbad wrote: post #497
denton-scratch wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the noun "mjol" (flour) means "having been ground up" Ah - "mjol" as flour must be cognate with "meal". I hadn't previously associated meal with mills, but it makes sense.

As another data point: meal/flour is "Mehl" in German. Mehl/meal is milled in a Mühle/mill.

Flour was originally only the highest quality grade- the "flower"- of ground grain.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#609

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

walthamstow wrote: post #207
petersellers wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also pretty cool that a ton of sailing vocabulary has made its way into common English vernacular. I guess with the UK being the most powerful country in the world at one time (and projecting their power via their Navy) it's not too surprising.

What are some examples? I am English but I know nothing about the maritime world, so I likely know the words as slang/vernacular terms but not what they mean on a ship.

To add to the list, strike (as in to refuse to work as a protest). In nautical terminology, to "strike" something is to lower it- sailors demanding better conditions or higher pay would lower their ship's sails and refuse to go to sea.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#610

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

xpe wrote: post #530
blantonl wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some other persepctives: "Skier's left/right" for snow skiing. Ambiguity arises when looking uphill or downhill. When riding on a float in Mardi Gras in New Orleans. You might be on the "driver's side" or "passenger's side". You could also be on the neutral ground side (left) or the other side. Or the rider could be on the "lake side" (left) or the river side (right). Parades run South to North and the Mississippi Ri…

> "Skier's left/right" for snow skiing. Ambiguity arises when looking uphill or downhill. But what about “snowboarder’s left”… sounds a lot like “starboard’s left” at which everybody on the fake ski slope on the cruise ship gets incredibly confused? We have to drive out all ambiguity here, or people are doing to die.

Snowboarder's left is either up or down the slope depending on the snowboarder...
Post reply on HN