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Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

economist.com

511–520 of 528 posts

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#511
post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cuba's economy is closed to outsiders. Didn't make them prosperous. They have a state run bank, too. Didn't make them prosperous.

Communism doesn't have a great economic track record.

That kind of depends, the Asian countries that are communist seem to have struck a balance between capitalism and communism that suits them (China, Vietnam)

The DPRK seems to be a basket case, with regular crop failures (we are told), but its relationship with China ensures that it continues to survive.

Capitalism in countries like the USA seems to work for part of their population, but not all, there are large swathes of poverty and homelessness, and the disparity between the haves and have nots is enormous.

The whole point of an economic system, whether it be Capitalism, Socialism, or the more common middle ground (almost every country has struck a balance between the two, with Welfare states, public housing, public health, etc), is to ensure that resources are managed such that they provide for the population.

Capitalism is great at a micro level, people get to decide for themselves how to spend their time, what they want to eat/drink/wear/grow on their farms, and so forth.

But, it's absolutely horrendous at a state/macro level - can you imagine roading being multiple companies competing by putting half a dozen roads between yourself and your work? Emergency services have tried that model (Fire engines used to be owned by one insurance company, or another, and you would have a label on your home letting the crews know which insurance company you were insured by, so if the wrong fire crew showed up they would just watch as your home burnt down)

It's super easy to say "Capitalism has incentivised innovation" but the Soviets were ahead of the USA in several engineering fields, without capitalism (their incentive was competition with the USA)

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#512

How would Europe even compete with America in the long run. America just has so many advantages (massive influx of talented workers, one country, better equiped with natural resources, the supremacy of the dolllar). There are many other reasons some of which might not seem clear cut. The average American or European life requires an economy which is on average much better than the average for the world. If you do not…

It’s so damn American to dismiss any other way of doing things. No better way than the American way, am I right? Europe is sick and tired to be the sickly buddy of the world’s bully. And we don’t care about the wonderful ways the bully keeps finding to build his muscles and reinforce his attitude. You yankees will never really get it though, so I’m talking to the wind.

Could you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? We particularly don't want nationalistic flamewar here, or ideological flamewar. You've been posting such comments repeatedly, unfortunately, and we have to ban accounts that do this.

I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended from now on, we'd appreciate it.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok no examples _needed_ but please provide some. I made software that helps my clients. I sell it for $1000/mo. I get $1000/mo and pay taxes on it. I have created $1000/mo. Please explain what's not fair about this? The intricate nuance I'm missing? LOL Let's say I work with one other person and pay them $1/hr, which they accept. They make my idea. I end up paying them like 100 and I make 1000/mo forever Where's the…

1. you didn't create $1000/mo. You did something that caused the (temporary) transfer of control over $1000/mo of economic resources into your hands. That means that what you did was not judged as useless by everyone else in the society where you live - and that's good! But the value of your software is utterly contingent on the full context of where you live. As many have noted, there are many highly paid jobs in (s…

1. What caused the transfer? If not value creation, why was it worth transferring? LOL

2. Ok, so capitalism is fair, then? you get paid what you're worth and control that value privately ... uhh...?

3. Explain the nuance of ownership there, what am I missing that makes it unfair?

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me answer you honestly and in depth: Why? Why not? If I am alive, I may as well make an effort, since I have a finite time to do so. It's fun. It's a challenge. I know a couple of men in their 50s, one is relatively wealthy (some tens of millions of dollars), and I have often seen him on top of a machine with a wrench in his hand at 6am. Sometimes it's 3am. He starts a new company every year or two and adds it to…

You're describing so many things wrong with humans as a species, or at least modern humans. We shouldn't change things just because we can. We shouldn't assume that if we're able to extract natural resources its also our right to use them without question until they're completely depleted. Why should we assume that every invention, every technology, everything we call "progress" is actually advancing in a good direct…

You know, I'm re-reading your comment again later, and you're right about some of the things we do because we can being detrimental.

We don't often weigh those decisions, we do first and figure out the consequences later. That happens less now with environmental issues than it used to, but we do things just because we can, we fill the night sky with satellites and we build AI without pausing for even a moment to consider if we should. We may regret some of this later. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but we won't stop to figure that out in advance, we'll find out the hard way.

Still though, we eradicated smallpox, hedged famine in most countries, closed the ozone hole, build networks that allow instant global communication by wire instead of by ship.

It may all yet work out, we'll see.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#515
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt. So much debt.

Another way to say this is foreign investment. So much foreign investment. China (and other big surplus countries) put a lot of money in to keeping the cost of things in the US low, due to their own mercantilist policies, directly at the expense of their own household sector.

I mean sure, one way is keeping yuan cheap against the usd.

But the real issue is still the commoditization of debt.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#516
post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s so damn American to dismiss any other way of doing things. No better way than the American way, am I right? Europe is sick and tired to be the sickly buddy of the world’s bully. And we don’t care about the wonderful ways the bully keeps finding to build his muscles and reinforce his attitude. You yankees will never really get it though, so I’m talking to the wind.

Could you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? We particularly don't want nationalistic flamewar here, or ideological flamewar. You've been posting such comments repeatedly, unfortunately, and we have to ban accounts that do this. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended from now on, we'd appreciate it.

Can I have a strong dislike of how America conducts its business or is that not allowed? If anything all my comments are ANTI-nationalistic, where the nationalism is that sneaking in so many comments here that subscribe to an entitled, west-centric view of the world. The fact that an always civil -albeit confrontational- discussion is seen as inflaming is quite worrying.

Edit: the entire thread this was an answer to was dismissive and partisan about Europe.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#517
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average French person has a life expectancy of 82. In Mississippi it’s 74.9, on par with Lithuania. That's a great bunch of cherries you picked there. If you are comparing Europe to the US, comparing France and Mississippi is disingenuous. Compare best-to-best or worst-to-worst [1][2]. The worst European countries are Azerbaijan (66.9), Moldova (70.2), Ukraine (71.2). The worst US states are W Virginia (74.8),…

> The worst of US is fares much better than the worst of EU None of those countries are in the EU. The lowest EU countries are countries that have only just recently joined the EU (Romania 74.35, Lithuania 74.93 and Latvia 75.39), which are around the same as the lowest US states.

Europe != EU

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check your perspective. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, Korea all industrialized faster and have a higher standard of living than China. All did it in the 1980s - 40 years ago. All did it without oppressive communism.

>if the measure is number of people lifted out of poverty, China wins hands down. >Check your perspective. >All did it in the 1980s - 40 years ago. All did it without oppressive communism. Japan industrialized long before 1980 and all the countries listed have miniscule populations compared to China. The only country you can really attempt to compare to China's scale is India but good luck landing the same poverty al…

Good luck finding examples of successful communism.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#519
post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please stop posting flamewar comments to HN? We particularly don't want nationalistic flamewar here, or ideological flamewar. You've been posting such comments repeatedly, unfortunately, and we have to ban accounts that do this. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN as intended from now on, we'd appreciate it.

Can I have a strong dislike of how America conducts its business or is that not allowed? If anything all my comments are ANTI-nationalistic, where the nationalism is that sneaking in so many comments here that subscribe to an entitled, west-centric view of the world. The fact that an always civil -albeit confrontational- discussion is seen as inflaming is quite worrying. Edit: the entire thread this was an answer to…

Of course you can - plenty of HN commenters make such critiques. But you need to do it without swipes, snark, name-calling, or flamebait, as the site guidelines ask: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Every sentence in your GP comment was flamebait—exactly the kind of thing we're trying to avoid here. And yes, if you start a flamewar comment a la "It's so damn $country", that's nationalistic flamewar in the sense that we use the term, regardless of which nation you have a problem with.

This kind of thing ends up producing internet discussion that is equal parts inflamed, predictable, and dumb. We want curious conversation here.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you located in Canada? I would be shocked to know you got non life threatening medical care in any of the major cities.

Vancouver. Occasions of excellent and free care include: general precautionary checkups and exams, blood and urine tests just to check on nutrition and general health, corrective surgery for minor conditions (eg. cyst removal), treatment for minor ear infection, hemorrhoid treatment, a great deal of care, MRIs, and x-rays after a bicycle accident resulted in a fractured bone, and of course several drive-through COVID…

Well in Ontario those are not happening. I wonder if BC recently changed a family doctor rule.
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