Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness • Hacker News Board

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#361

Post by rayiner » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

freejazz wrote: post #350

rayiner wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> Drag shows involve violating social norms as a form of voluntary self expression This argument is brought to you by the same crowd of incels and other neo-reactionaries who lament the public reaction to their continued efforts to be shockingly edgy > Such rejection of social norms should not be granted state sanction by hosting such events in public libraries. Why? What social norms should the state care about? All…

> This argument is brought to you by the same crowd of incels and other neo-reactionaries who lament the public reaction to their continued efforts to be shockingly edgy

No, sorry, standard brown immigrant socialization—which is why both DeSantis and Youngkin won on this issue. Look, my family voted for Biden but we would lose our shit if any of our kids got a tattoo. You do not want to fight us in that turf.

> Why? What social norms should the state care about?

If we are talking about what state sanction directed to children, then it should be the social norms parents want to impart to their kids. There id a majority coalition for those norms to include accepting people who are born different. There is not a majority coalition in support of voluntary gender norm breaking in the name of self expression.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#362

Post by barbazoo » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

hasmolo wrote: post #57

mawadev wrote: post #40

It is truly remarkable to which great lengths people go to justify their unhealthy relationship with social media. It is nearly the same as telling an alcoholic they have an alcohol problem and then hearing excuse after excuse and re-framing and mental gymnastics to jump around the elephant in the room. I'm glad write-ups like this one are a thing. Maybe our parents were indeed right when they told us we are glued to…

this glued to devices meme is tired. look at a picture of folks on public transport from before phones. note that _everyone_ is reading a newspaper or magazine. i know it seems crazy, but humans reading information is a constant in public, and the only reason you didn't see more of it in the past is that you were part of the group consuming media, while also assigning intellectual value to the fact that a periodical…

> look at a picture of folks on public transport from before phones.

That's a strawman, the issue is kids spending their time on devices rather than outside doing real play with real people. That sort of thing.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#363

Post by max51 » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 5:58 PM UTC

softwaredoug wrote: post #113

As a parent. It's a hard topic. And not black and white. For the 10+ crowd, the days of kids roaming the streets, finding their friends and playing are gone. I think the causes for this are complicated, and social media (and screens) are just one part of the puzzle. Consider a few things: 1. The percentage of households with kids has gradually declined over time, while the percentage of retirees has gone up. So you j…

>Case in point, my son and his friends have a small discord server. And they play minecraft on a shared server. This not the same as scrolling TikTok / Instagram. But it's a degree of independence somewhat away from parental eyes.

I think not enough people here are understanding the distinction between a communication tool (eg. discord), doom-scrolling platform like tiktok, and video games.

A discord server can be very beneficial for your kids and allow them to coordinate activities. A lot of cool experiences I had in high school and friendships were a direct result of MSN Messenger. A shared multiplayer server like minecraft is also a great way to make friends and learn some social skills. I don't think it's as good as a physical sport activity, but it's far better than a lot solo hobbies traditionally considered "good" for them.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#364

Post by plorg » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:06 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #336

freejazz wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Like is it possible for you to acknowledge that folks in Florida don’t want to kill sexual minorities, but are also wary of a resurgent sexual revolution that could change the behaviors of kids who aren’t born gay or trans? Like can you seriously deny that there is an emerging trend of sexual identity becoming a form of self expression? Sorry, but what's the problem with sexual identity being a form of self expressi…

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>...people should be able to participate in social institutions like marriage consistent with their biology...

"Consistent with their biology" is not a precondition that you could find broad agreement on - I don't think you could even find a broad agreement on what it means.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#365

Post by OkayPhysicist » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:06 PM UTC

zamnos wrote: post #171

data_eng_dude wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least with alcohol it's more socially acceptable to say to friends "I've seen how much you've been drinking lately and I'm concerned about you" - you can't really say the same for tiktok or instagram use.

Sure you can. Well maybe you can't, but the kids these days even have a phrase for it - go touch grass.

Yeah, there's a whole lexicon around this sort of thing. "Go touch grass" is a fantastic one for it's punchiness, but "terminally online" is fun one, too. Add in a healthy dose of sarcasm, and labels like "influencer" and "gamer" and the like get used as pejoratives often, too.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#366

Post by rayiner » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:08 PM UTC

msla wrote: post #337

rayiner wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Drag shows involve violating social norms as a form of voluntary self expression. Such rejection of social norms should not be granted state sanction by hosting such events in public libraries. Mere assertion. Not an argument. The supposed arguments against drag queen story time are either unserious hand-wringing about supposed harms coming from drag, a form of art older than modern gender roles, or simple threats…

The premise for broad acceptance of trans rights, just as it is for gay rights, is the scientific fact that prenatal endocrine exposure controls sexual orientation and people’s feelings about what gender they are: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B97801.... It’s not at all “ill-defined” it’s the scientific premise behind saying that someone is born transgender as opposed to choosing to be transgender.

Accepting the right of people to present themselves consistent with their gender identity has nothing to do with sanctioning breaking gender norms for “art” or other purposes, which is the focus of drag.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#367

Post by bluescrn » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:08 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #241

bluescrn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If children/teens weren't exposed to so much online doom-mongering, they would be finding things to live for rather than fearing the future. Even if the world is a bit shit, there's still plenty of opportunities for love, family, friendship, art, music, sport, and plenty more. Maybe even working towards solving one of the big problems we face, whether that's through science/tech or politics/economics?

Perhaps if they were narrowly focused on religion? It seems to work for the Amish and other intensely devout groups.

I've always been an atheist, but I'm starting to wonder whether the decline of religion has done more harm than good. We've certainly lost some of the basic human decency that was once passed on via religion. The concept of forgiveness seems to be one glaring example, and the rise of selfish consumerism and online narcissism.

Maybe we need something to replace religion, without the dogma, oppression, and conflict. Something other than the online tribalism and activism seems to be filling that void for many...

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#368

Post by freejazz » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:09 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #361

freejazz wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drag shows involve violating social norms as a form of voluntary self expression This argument is brought to you by the same crowd of incels and other neo-reactionaries who lament the public reaction to their continued efforts to be shockingly edgy > Such rejection of social norms should not be granted state sanction by hosting such events in public libraries. Why? What social norms should the state care about? All…

> This argument is brought to you by the same crowd of incels and other neo-reactionaries who lament the public reaction to their continued efforts to be shockingly edgy No, sorry, standard brown immigrant socialization—which is why both DeSantis and Youngkin won on this issue. Look, my family voted for Biden but we would lose our shit if any of our kids got a tattoo. You do not want to fight us in that turf. > Why?…

>There is not a majority coalition in support of voluntary gender norm breaking in the name of self expression.

As opposed to in the name of what else? your posts are so weird - no one is trying to fight you, so maybe tone it down. Like, you post at me like I'm going into your community and making you do things with your children, it's a bit ridiculous. We are just chatting on a website.

>No, sorry, standard brown immigrant socialization—which is why both DeSantis and Youngkin won on this issue.

What?

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#369

Post by lamontcg » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:21 PM UTC

rqtwteye wrote: post #83

psychphysic wrote: post #21

It's quite hard for me to judge this topic because I am so thoroughly convinced that social media is toxic for mental health. I think unfortunately it has become pervasive enough that you can't avoid experiencing it's toxic influence. There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground and like the use of stocks in medieval times the concept of cancellation is much more power than any reality. T…

I think social media amplified trends that were there before. I remember when I came to the US in 2000 it was pretty fashionable to say “I am angry” all the time. And the hatred at politicians was pretty pronounced too. And the cable news was already spreading fear and anger. Personally I think modern media starting with cable TV allowed hatemongers to easily reach large groups. The internet just made it much worse.…

That was adults though.

We've had angry politics in the USA for adults as long as I can remember (Morton Downey Jr was my first real exposure to it).

That doesn't explain what is going on with teenage girls though that started around 2012.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#370

Post by racktash » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:21 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #122

bluescrn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If children/teens weren't exposed to so much online doom-mongering, they would be finding things to live for rather than fearing the future. Even if the world is a bit shit, there's still plenty of opportunities for love, family, friendship, art, music, sport, and plenty more. Maybe even working towards solving one of the big problems we face, whether that's through science/tech or politics/economics?

It's exactly this "we didn't start the fire" mentality that caused the situation we're in. If you want the world to change, you need to do that. You can't just wait for it to happen.

Most of the world's problems aren't solvable by everyday people. Better to focus one's attention on oneself, work, family and community, where a difference might be made.

(Obviously it's also great if a person can donate to charity or something of that nature. But obsessively following world events will make you miserable and solve nothing.)