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Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#311

Post by remarkEon »

kloch wrote: post #145

I just want to say this was one of the most enjoyable articles I have read in a long time. It's informative, respectful to critics, and exudes a "confident but restrained" tone that is so rare in public discourse these days.

>So this is a good academic debate between well-intentioned participants. It is being carried out in a cordial way, in public, in long-form essays rather than on Twitter. The question for readers — and particularly parents, school administrators, and legislators — is which side you should listen to as you think about what policies to adopt or change.

I've been reading all the essays, and the meta-commentary is that the reason the debate reads the way it does is that it's ... not on social media.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#312

Post by freejazz »

peanutcrisis wrote: post #172
msla wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground There's no middle ground between wanting to kill someone and wanting to let them live in peace. If a person thinks someone is a born child molester (a "groomer" in the modern Newspeak) and that person thinks the punishment for child molestation is death (as is fashionable in Florida of late) there's no way they can meet that person in the mid…

A contra-narrative to your point is that there exist a minority of people who hold very specific and very dogmatic views about gender. These people are pushing their views through the education system (I do not know the extent of it, just that it exists), and seemingly without the consent of parents (i.e., social transitions without informing parents). While I deeply disagree and detest the use of the term "groomer",…

> These people are pushing their views through the education system (I do not know the extent of it, just that it exists), and seemingly without the consent of parents (i.e., social transitions without informing parents).

That's certainly a narrative one side sells. One does have to wonder though, how it is that this could be possible given the complete lack of power in society held by those individuals. Maybe it's a bit more hyped up than it really is.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#313

Post by freejazz »

rayiner wrote: post #224
peanutcrisis wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A contra-narrative to your point is that there exist a minority of people who hold very specific and very dogmatic views about gender. These people are pushing their views through the education system (I do not know the extent of it, just that it exists), and seemingly without the consent of parents (i.e., social transitions without informing parents). While I deeply disagree and detest the use of the term "groomer",…

[flagged]

>What’s actually going on in Florida is an ideological debate about how to teach kids to think about sexuality and gender identity more generally.

No it's not and that's a completely disingenuous reading of what is actually going on in Florida, which is clearly reactive politics and pearl-grasping over every single culture war issue because their governor is pushing these kinds of policies to gain nat'l political prominence.

>That’s why these middle aged librarians have drag shows for kids. In a way drag shows are a mockery of trans women. That doesn’t matter to them, because for them the overriding principle is self expression.

Lol, I see what's really going on with your post now.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#314

Post by freejazz »

rayiner wrote: post #266
dtauzell wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reaction became a chain reaction and now the details don't matter and the "dogma" could be anything. For example, singing the sone "Rainbowland" at an elementary school concert is now considered pushing some dogma of shaming on kids.

[flagged]

Conservatives are all for letting parents take their kids to churches where people play with snakes and speak in tongues, and you are actually pearl clutching over a man wearing a dress?

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#315

Post by freejazz »

rayiner wrote: post #140
msla wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground There's no middle ground between wanting to kill someone and wanting to let them live in peace. If a person thinks someone is a born child molester (a "groomer" in the modern Newspeak) and that person thinks the punishment for child molestation is death (as is fashionable in Florida of late) there's no way they can meet that person in the mid…

> There's no middle ground between wanting to kill someone and wanting to let them live in peace. If a person thinks someone is a born child molester (a "groomer" in the modern Newspeak) and that person thinks the punishment for child molestation is death (as is fashionable in Florida of late) there's no way they can meet that person in the middle. You can start by pulling back from the obvious rhetorical flourishes.…

>Like is it possible for you to acknowledge that folks in Florida don’t want to kill sexual minorities, but are also wary of a resurgent sexual revolution that could change the behaviors of kids who aren’t born gay or trans? Like can you seriously deny that there is an emerging trend of sexual identity becoming a form of self expression?

Sorry, but what's the problem with sexual identity being a form of self expression? Really struggling with this...

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#316

Post by freejazz »

rayiner wrote: post #272
ModernMech wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some major headlines in Florida recently: "Florida Republicans Take Aim at Gender-Affirming Care, Drag Shows... [The bill] would treat parents as abusers for allowing medical care to children, and cracks down on parenting harder even than Texas Gov. Greg Abbott’s notorious anti-trans child executive order." [1] "Florida lawmakers approve death penalty in child rapes, sending bill to governor... The Florida Senate on…

[flagged]

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Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#317

Post by prox »

taeric wrote: post #243
psychphysic wrote: post #21

It's quite hard for me to judge this topic because I am so thoroughly convinced that social media is toxic for mental health. I think unfortunately it has become pervasive enough that you can't avoid experiencing it's toxic influence. There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground and like the use of stocks in medieval times the concept of cancellation is much more power than any reality. T…

Oddly, I used to have the same view of sports. Growing up where I did, it was common for folks to be fanatical on their local college sports team. Such that they get mean to folks from their "rival" schools and are generally trash talking to everyone else. It was so bad, that I certainly thought that was how you were supposed to be. Pick a side and be aggressive to the opponents when watching the game. Goal was to ma…

The general mechanism is always the same : in-group vs out-group. My tribe is humane, your tribe is evil beyond compare.

The exploit is emotional reactivity, get your in-group gaslighted so they are on permanent rage.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#318

Post by 7402 »

I thought this statement in the article was particularly worth celebrating:

> So this is a good academic debate between well-intentioned participants. It is being carried out in a cordial way, in public, in long-form essays rather than on Twitter.

I wish there were more examples of this kind of discourse for other hot-button issues of the day.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#320

Post by JamesBarney »

plorg wrote: post #286
rayiner wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What about drag shows is inappropriate, for what ages, and what intervention would you consider reasonable to prevent the harm of children? Plenty of drag shows are designed to be family-friendly, and generally parents can just not bring their kids to things that they don't think are appropriate for them. In any case, the way you write about self expression (and the Matt Walsh-level unseriousness of describing drag s…

And parents should be able to choose to take their kids to a private family friendly drag show if they choose.

But there is a big difference between that and putting one on at a public school or library.

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