Live data from Hacker News

Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

271–280 of 580 posts

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these examples reinforce my point: both the Troubles and the Cold War felt (and ultimately were) resolvable, while climate change (in the popular conception) feels fundamentally unresolvable. The former were also fundamentally social concerns, with avenues for social activism; the latter contains social concerns but is fundamentally a global coordination problem that’s roughly equivalent to achieving world pe…

The Cold War absolutely did not feel resolvable at the time. The popular conception was that of present day North Korea cranked up to 100; there were crazy people in Moscow, they had thousands of nukes pointed at the rest of the world, and they’d successfully set up a system to prevent sanity from being restored. (In Russia, my understanding is that they generally saw it as a story of capitalists who could not stand…

Two points stand out:

* At least in the US, the fear of nuclear annihilation was partially offset by the belief (which was never officially substantiated) that the government would adhere to a policy of rational deterrence, i.e. MAD. It’s hard to find polls on belief in MAD, but friends and family I’ve talked to have stated that it was a source of reassurance during all but the most stressful moments of the Cold War.

* The stress of the Cold War also coincides with the longest period of peace and greatest increase in quality of life in the Western world. An intuitive explanation of why suicides didn’t increase under the stress of the Cold War is that life was otherwise improving for most Westerners in tangible ways. The relative stagnancy of the last 30 years is a significant departure from that.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no middle ground between wanting to kill someone and wanting to let them live in peace. If a person thinks someone is a born child molester (a "groomer" in the modern Newspeak) and that person thinks the punishment for child molestation is death (as is fashionable in Florida of late) there's no way they can meet that person in the middle. You can start by pulling back from the obvious rhetorical flourishes.…

Some major headlines in Florida recently: "Florida Republicans Take Aim at Gender-Affirming Care, Drag Shows... [The bill] would treat parents as abusers for allowing medical care to children, and cracks down on parenting harder even than Texas Gov. Greg Abbott’s notorious anti-trans child executive order." [1] "Florida lawmakers approve death penalty in child rapes, sending bill to governor... The Florida Senate on…

[flagged]

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#273
post #230

One of cited objections is absurd: > I don't trust any area of research where the odds ratios are below 3. Then what’s the point of researching even slightly more subtle effects? This person might as well start smoking: they wouldn’t trust any amount of evidence that smoking causes cardiovascular disease — the odds ratio seems to be 2.

In fairness, the odds ratio for "smoking causes lung cancer" is about sixteen.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LinkedIn and Nextdoor are the two worst social platforms around, it's the worst kind of horrible, a sort of superficial rage and invasiveness, a complete disregard for others as human beings. Say what you will about Twitter, but at least the insults there are direct and tend to stay exclusive to Twitter - as opposed to neighbors convincing each other of the worst or your ability to land a job being sabotaged because…

Yep, at least there are some posts on Twitter that occasionally make me laugh. LinkedIn just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and you almost have to use it nowadays.

That's not even remotely true (re: the need to use LinkedIn). Just quit.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reaction became a chain reaction and now the details don't matter and the "dogma" could be anything. For example, singing the sone "Rainbowland" at an elementary school concert is now considered pushing some dogma of shaming on kids.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly "effectively 0" includes a number of mass shooters.

Sorry, can you elaborate on your point a little bit - I'm not sure where you're going but genuinely want to understand.

Even if effectively 0% of people hold extremist views (and I think that is a low number), they also commit outsized acts of violence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs_nightclub_sho... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting

You'll also note that mainstream conservatives refused to condemn the Colorado Springs shooting and there has been no change in the rhetoric that encouraged it.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#277
If I just walk around the neighborhood, nearly half the pedestrians are staring at the phone, oblivious to where they're going. Sometimes I have to shout "Hello!" to get them to not run into me. And these are (mostly) adults.

One guess what class of app they're all staring at.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#278

It's quite hard for me to judge this topic because I am so thoroughly convinced that social media is toxic for mental health. I think unfortunately it has become pervasive enough that you can't avoid experiencing it's toxic influence. There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground and like the use of stocks in medieval times the concept of cancellation is much more power than any reality. T…

How is twitter a prison. You can just not use it. I've never had an account there, and never used it other occcasionally reading a linked tweet in my web browser.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#279
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a powerful combination of safetyism and concentration in urban and suburban areas that has pushed the American political compass strongly towards collectivistic priorities this generation. Basically a strong "europeisation" in metropolitan America. Perhaps extortionate real estate prices and telework will put some counterbalance to it, but I don't expect this trend to buckle during my lifetime.

What has this got to do with collectivism? People can collectively decide to do whatever they want. Germany collectively decide to have risky playgrounds for kids. Sweden collectively decided not to lock down hard for covid. It sounds to me like America could do with collectively standing up against these channels and rejecting the rubbish they are peddling.

I have seen those "risky" playgrounds in Germany - they aren't that risky at all?

Sure, you could get a splinter from the wood if its not maintained, or have a fall and get scraped up, but the risks are low, the benefits (learning to not be a fucking muppet, learning to cope with falls) are high.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay but how are we supposed to get teen girls not to compare themselves to the looks of global stars? This existed before social media. At best I can see it being a catalyst here and so sure limit or ban social media (at least for under 18s ~ 25s, whatever we agree on is a developed adult brain). Lowering the percentage of teens with mental health issues is a good thing. However that doesn't stop teens from comparin…

> However that doesn't stop teens from comparing their looks to their peers, adults they know, and obviously global media (magazines, billboards, films, music, etc; what 'successful' women look like on cable news). How are the underlying cause for these negative feelings going to be addressed? Is it such a bad thing that they compare themselves to their peers? In 2018 "obesity prevalence was [...] 21.2% among 12- to…

So if your peers have a nice fat ass that the boys all like to oggle at while walking between classes and you're stuck with a skinny thigh gapping flapjack white girl tush you bet your ass you're gonna start eating some cheese berders.

The feeling of wanting to fit in is constant for teens. What 'fitting in' looks like changes over time.

What's desired has changed over time in my life alone. Booty is a great example. I grew up with mostly white women in media shaming themselves and asking if their dress made their ass look fat while also trying to get boob implants.

Nowadays booty is WAAAAY more prominent and desired and those old tired jokes about their ass looking fat a hell of a lot less common.

From the show Brockmire:

https://youtu.be/lOBjS2kzL3w

Post reply on HN