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Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

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Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#501

Post by CWuestefeld »

tomxor wrote: post #483
lostlogin wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical school is that left/right always refer to the patient's perspective. I was recently involved in a case where a patient decided that their left should be called the right side during a phone consultation as that would help their doctor. Good times.

That's a particularly strange kind of overthinking, implicitly acknowledging the medical field is complex enough to consult a professional, and yet thinking something as common and (relatively) simple as interpreting left/right from patient descriptions hasn't already been considered. That's before even getting into the assumption of face to face orientation over a phone... is that in virtual terms, or in terms of ab…

As I said elsewhere, but I think it's worth repeating here - In an effort to avoid ambiguity, I always talk to my doctor in terms of "driver's side" and "passenger side" - thus adopting the maritime approach, but in more common terms.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#502

Post by CWuestefeld »

wazoox wrote: post #418
antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

In French, starboard and port are "tribord" (same etymology as "starboard", through Dutch) and "bâbord" ("back (of the oarman) board"). On stage, they are "côté cour" and "côté jardin" because the "Comédie-Française" theatre during the 1770 was in the Tuileries palace, and the stage was oriented with the Louvre courtyard on its right, and the Tuileries garden on its left.

In English, there's an archaic "larboard" meaning "port side". My understanding is that this word was intentionally banished due to confusion originating from the sound being so similar to "starboard".

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#503

Post by blackshaw »

almostarockstar wrote: post #354
walthamstow wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples? I am English but I know nothing about the maritime world, so I likely know the words as slang/vernacular terms but not what they mean on a ship.

Leeway: The "lee" is the area downwind of a vessel. A lee-shore is a shoreline that the wind blows on to, as opposed to a windward shore that the wind blows off. To give leeway is to allow enough room for a vessel to be blown off course by the wind and avoid danger. Rig (noun): The mast and supporting stays on a boat. (oil rigs, "big rig" come from this I think). Rig (verb): To put the sails up and tie on the sheets…

The "posh" one is commonly repeated, but there's no evidence it's true: https://www.etymonline.com/word/posh#etymonline_v_18515

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#504

Post by jdmichal »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #494
jdmichal wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People only have one appendix to start with. Did you mean appendage?

No, that's what I meant, but said in a facetious way. If someone is complaining about lower right abdominal pain that could be the appendix, when lower left would not be.

Ah I get it now. Sorry for the density.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#505

Post by hgsgm »

closewith wrote: post #484
ethbr0 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With boats, others mentioned that wind provides its own frame, and there are separate words still for "left" and "right" in that frame. There's windward (towards/upwind) and leeward (away/downwind). Are there left and right too? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windward_and_leeward

There's port/starboard tack, where the wind is coming from the port/starboard side of the vessel. It can be confusing because, for example, if a boat on a port tack tacks to port, the result is a starboard tack (once the bow crosses the direction from which the wind is blowing).

That has another ambiguity: in wind, directions are presumed to be naming the source of the wind, not the sink.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#506

Post by jacquesm »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #501
tomxor wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a particularly strange kind of overthinking, implicitly acknowledging the medical field is complex enough to consult a professional, and yet thinking something as common and (relatively) simple as interpreting left/right from patient descriptions hasn't already been considered. That's before even getting into the assumption of face to face orientation over a phone... is that in virtual terms, or in terms of ab…

As I said elsewhere, but I think it's worth repeating here - In an effort to avoid ambiguity, I always talk to my doctor in terms of "driver's side" and "passenger side" - thus adopting the maritime approach, but in more common terms.

Until you call a doctor in the UK.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#507

Post by gorbypark »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

In the skiing and mountaineering world we use climbers (sometimes “lookers”) right/left or skiers right/left to differentiate when facing uphill or downhill. I find having both is helpful instead of just having a single standardized one.

For example, if you are standing and looking at a mountain, it’s easier to say “just to the climbers left of that peak” because it’s on the left from your perspective, likewise when descending it best to say “stay to the skiers left of the rock”.

There’s also lots of times it’s good to mix and match, like if you are looking at and discussing a mountain from afar and planning on skiing down it later, you might keep the conversation from a skiers perspective.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#509

Post by xnx »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

How much has the ambiguity between right (direction) and right (correct) cost the world?

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#510

Post by cornholio »

riffraff wrote: post #203
bluefirebrand wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would probably throw my girlfriend off. She has some kind of right/left dyslexia. When she's driving and I'm giving directions I have to tell her "short turn" or "long turn". Long turn being left, longer because it's across a lane, right turns are shorter. But if someone told her that left is shorter than right for remembering purposes, it would probably mess her up more when following driving directions.

Holy crap my wife is the same, I have to tell her "turn my way" or "turn your way". It drives me insane as I always subconsciously interpret it as a form of lazyness, your framing of it as a form od dyslexia may finally allow me to be less bothered by it!

Whenever I hear the words 'left' and 'right' and have to act on them, i slightly twitch the corresponding arm or foot, and then can orient myself accordingly.

I "know" where my right arm is and I can feel it instinctively (as a right handed person, it's my main, default arm). But apparently my brain cannot map those words to directions in the outside world until it establishes a positional relation to my own body. I used to be ridiculed as a child for not knowing left from right until I developed the twitching trick.

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