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Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#141

Post by 1827162 »

ThomPete wrote: post #12
woodruffw wrote: post #5

Just to levy a single criticism among several: I find Haidt’s rebuttal of the climate change hypothesis unconvincing: fears around climate change are not “energizing” in the way that prior crises are, in a significant part because public sentiment around climate change is that we’re already doomed in a way that isn’t really possible with social crises. Similarly: I don’t think most teenage girls were voraciously read…

Climate change is now climate catastrophism. It's unfortunately many times more doomer today than ever. And while climate itself is not energizing, "doing something about it to save the world' is because it's simple even if it's in-effective. A phenomena like Greta Thunberg wouldn't be possible if it wasn't for that. And wind and solar and tesla and other avenue that doesn't really do anything other than let us waste…

It appears to me that fears over catastrophic climate change are yet another moral panic. Amplified by social media this time.

As with other moral panics (e.g. child abductions, pedophilia), the problem exists, but is blown way out of proportion by the media.

In reality, I believe there of course will be changes in the weather patterns due to a relatively small increase in temperature, but it's not going to be the end of the world and there certainly won't be any mass drought or famine from the change.

I kind of intuitively know this, and mostly disregard the opinions of those saying that there is impending doom. As I have likely seen this type of hysteria play out before in my life many times already.

It will be interesting to see if I'm right about it or not, over the coming decades...

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#142

Post by watwut »

hasmolo wrote: post #57
mawadev wrote: post #40

It is truly remarkable to which great lengths people go to justify their unhealthy relationship with social media. It is nearly the same as telling an alcoholic they have an alcohol problem and then hearing excuse after excuse and re-framing and mental gymnastics to jump around the elephant in the room. I'm glad write-ups like this one are a thing. Maybe our parents were indeed right when they told us we are glued to…

this glued to devices meme is tired. look at a picture of folks on public transport from before phones. note that _everyone_ is reading a newspaper or magazine. i know it seems crazy, but humans reading information is a constant in public, and the only reason you didn't see more of it in the past is that you were part of the group consuming media, while also assigning intellectual value to the fact that a periodical…

> note that _everyone_ is reading a newspaper or magazine

There is one popular picture where everyone is reading newspapers in a bus. And just like now it is not true that everyone is reading on phone on public transport. It was even less so before, because not everybody carried magazines with them all the time.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#143

Post by MandieD »

somedude895 wrote: post #68
iamerroragent wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay but how are we supposed to get teen girls not to compare themselves to the looks of global stars? This existed before social media. At best I can see it being a catalyst here and so sure limit or ban social media (at least for under 18s ~ 25s, whatever we agree on is a developed adult brain). Lowering the percentage of teens with mental health issues is a good thing. However that doesn't stop teens from comparin…

You're never going to get people to not compare themselves with their peers. Comparing yourself through media like magazines etc has been the case for at least 50 years. The teen mental health epidemic has really started in 2012 is what Haidt is talking about.

More like 100: my grandmother had skimpy eyebrows that she penciled in her whole adult life because she overplucked them as a teen, trying to look like the movie stars she saw in the rare magazine she could buy in the Dust Bowl-era Texas Panhandle.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#144

Post by kelipso »

Entinel wrote: post #70
iamerroragent wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay but how are we supposed to get teen girls not to compare themselves to the looks of global stars? This existed before social media. At best I can see it being a catalyst here and so sure limit or ban social media (at least for under 18s ~ 25s, whatever we agree on is a developed adult brain). Lowering the percentage of teens with mental health issues is a good thing. However that doesn't stop teens from comparin…

No one really talks about it but I think it is a symptom of bad parenting. How many times have people sat their kid down and explained these Hollywood types are not the average looking person?

When you're exposed to something over and over, you internalize it. Explaining helps with this I'm sure but only slightly.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#146

Post by frostburg »

somedude895 wrote: post #131
frostburg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point; children would die otherwise, by the very biological nature of our species. What the various kinds of "avoid coddling" types want is determining the details of what should be allowed to traumatize them, specifically, in order to shape society.

> is determining the details of what should be allowed As far as I understand all Haidt calls for is to remove the boundaries that have been established over the past couple of decades, or what selectivity are you hinting at here that are part of that supposed plan to shape society?

Apparently social media is a step too far but other things that he likes should be common again. He might not even be specifically wrong about some practices being harmful, but the given arguments are weak and incidentally they map to a certain kind of reactionary wishlish.

More generally, the discourse tends to boil down to "I was spanked and I turned out fine!".

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#147

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

psychphysic wrote: post #21

It's quite hard for me to judge this topic because I am so thoroughly convinced that social media is toxic for mental health. I think unfortunately it has become pervasive enough that you can't avoid experiencing it's toxic influence. There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground and like the use of stocks in medieval times the concept of cancellation is much more power than any reality. T…

> There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground

I disagree that this is a new phenomenon per se. There’s always been resistance to some aspects of a middle ground. Consider the case of Anita Bryant, who advocated that not being allowed to discriminate against homosexuals was a violation of her rights as a mother and as a “normal” American. She advocated for homosexuals to be ousted from schools and other environments because in her mind being gay was a corrupting force on children. This was well before the internet.

I also think the concept of cancellation is curious because it’s so fickle and stochastic. On one hand the lady who called the cops on a black man filming her choking her dog still doesn’t have a job 3 years later. On the other hand known sexual harasser comedians are selling out tickets like nothing happened. Hard to square that circle, and I wonder if there are more studies to quantify this phenomenon.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#148

Post by ycombinete »

kloch wrote: post #145

I just want to say this was one of the most enjoyable articles I have read in a long time. It's informative, respectful to critics, and exudes a "confident but restrained" tone that is so rare in public discourse these days.

His books The Righteous Mind, and Happiness Hypothesis are similarly well written. He narrates the former himself in the Audible version.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#149

Post by [deleted] »

idontknowifican wrote: post #105
switch007 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you there? I was at the tail end of it - I used to take the train regularly in the mid 90s (to the present day). I remember some people with newspaper but it definitely wasn’t everyone. And I just found about 15 pictures in a quick Google images search from the 70s and 80s that disprove your assertion.

yes, but my experience is speaking to caltrain in the 90s

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