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Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

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Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#481

Post by themeiguoren »

bckygldstn wrote: post #117
antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

> stage left / stage right Outdoor recreation often uses climbers left/right and skiers left/right (even when there's no rock or snow) to orient direction relative to slope, which is similarly descriptive and clear to those who haven't heard the terms before. Except for rivers, where True Left and True Right are commonly used in New Zealand for hiking and kayaking, and I can never remember which way round they go!

Climber’s right doesn’t make sense to me as distinguished from looker’s right, since both perform the named activity facing the slope.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#482

Post by stratosgear »

denton-scratch wrote: post #329
narrator wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting thing about middle ages technologies, like boats, is that the words in the different romance languages for things invented in this era are very different from each other. For example, in Spanish boat words like port and starboard are totally different[1]. Other examples of middle ages words that are very different: windmill = molino, wheelbarrow = carretilla. Words that refer to older things have more…

> windmill = molino I don't know Spanish, but "molino" looks like French "moulin", which is a mill; a windmill is "moulin a vent". So I reckon "very different" is an exaggeration.

And in Greek: μύλος. With latin characters: milos. So it seems the root of the word is the same...

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#483

Post by tomxor »

lostlogin wrote: post #257
antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

> At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical school is that left/right always refer to the patient's perspective. I was recently involved in a case where a patient decided that their left should be called the right side during a phone consultation as that would help their doctor. Good times.

That's a particularly strange kind of overthinking, implicitly acknowledging the medical field is complex enough to consult a professional, and yet thinking something as common and (relatively) simple as interpreting left/right from patient descriptions hasn't already been considered.

That's before even getting into the assumption of face to face orientation over a phone... is that in virtual terms, or in terms of absolute orientation, I hope they took into consideration the curvature of the Earth.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#484

Post by closewith »

ethbr0 wrote: post #453
TeMPOraL wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it has to do with how many frames of reference you're juggling in a task/profession. With boats, others mentioned that wind provides its own frame, and there are separate words still for "left" and "right" in that frame. Then there's space, where it gets even more fun, as the relevant frames - the ship, the orbit (or the "centre of gravity" of everything pulling on you) - are completely independent. That is…

> With boats, others mentioned that wind provides its own frame, and there are separate words still for "left" and "right" in that frame. There's windward (towards/upwind) and leeward (away/downwind). Are there left and right too? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windward_and_leeward

There's port/starboard tack, where the wind is coming from the port/starboard side of the vessel. It can be confusing because, for example, if a boat on a port tack tacks to port, the result is a starboard tack (once the bow crosses the direction from which the wind is blowing).

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#485

Post by aintgonnatakeit »

ethbr0 wrote: post #453
TeMPOraL wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it has to do with how many frames of reference you're juggling in a task/profession. With boats, others mentioned that wind provides its own frame, and there are separate words still for "left" and "right" in that frame. Then there's space, where it gets even more fun, as the relevant frames - the ship, the orbit (or the "centre of gravity" of everything pulling on you) - are completely independent. That is…

> With boats, others mentioned that wind provides its own frame, and there are separate words still for "left" and "right" in that frame. There's windward (towards/upwind) and leeward (away/downwind). Are there left and right too? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windward_and_leeward

For wind, you have “lifted” (wind shift that takes you closer to your destination) and “headed” (similar but away) when going to weather. Downwind, it’s a little different as the wind just “shifts” and you trim sails or steer to take advantage.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#487

Post by kuon »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

In french, on stage, it's "cour" (stage left) and "jardin" (stage right), meanings yard and garden.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#488

Post by q1w2 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #346
antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

French (maybe its in english too actually, natives could comment) say rive gauche and rive droit for which bank of the river or lake we talk about. Always taken from perspective of river flowing downhill. Makes sense, just takes some time getting used to when coming from language which doesnt obsess about it that much

This is true in english also. The right/left bank of a river is always from the perspective of the water flowing/facing downstream.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#489

Post by closewith »

walthamstow wrote: post #207
petersellers wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also pretty cool that a ton of sailing vocabulary has made its way into common English vernacular. I guess with the UK being the most powerful country in the world at one time (and projecting their power via their Navy) it's not too surprising.

What are some examples? I am English but I know nothing about the maritime world, so I likely know the words as slang/vernacular terms but not what they mean on a ship.

If your code is anything like mine, it might be junk, a term for worn rope.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#490

Post by q1w2 »

blantonl wrote: post #478
antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

Some other persepctives: "Skier's left/right" for snow skiing. Ambiguity arises when looking uphill or downhill. When riding on a float in Mardi Gras in New Orleans. You might be on the "driver's side" or "passenger's side". You could also be on the neutral ground side (left) or the other side. Or the rider could be on the "lake side" (left) or the river side (right). Parades run South to North and the Mississippi Ri…

Another is the right/left bank of a river always refers to the perspective of the water flowing/facing downstream.
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