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An example of LLM prompting for programming

martinfowler.com

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Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming

#231

Post by stygiansonic »

ok_dad wrote: post #223
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not wondering about how the system will determine what's most helpful but instead determining what's even "correct". A model will learn what's "correct" from Stack Overflow by finding accepted or highly-voted answers but when it can't find such content anymore (in this case because Stack Overflow is hypothetically gone) then what would even exist to generate these discussions to be used as training data? Github,…

When Google search became important, people structured their information so that Google could best index it. When AIs become important in the same way, people will start to structure their information so that a particular class of AI can best index it. If that involves API documentation, perhaps there will be a standard format that AIs understand the best.

The difference is that folks had an incentive to make their pages easily indexable: drive page views.

With becoming training data the incentive to the creators is a little less clear

Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming

#232

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

A bit off topic but this article made think of a wierd future.

LLM's writing ad-hoc code, handling message passing, and a self contained llm functions in software systems. Ushering in a whole era of non-deterministic computing. I thought our infrastructure was shaky now...

Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming

#233

Post by quirkot »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #196
tarruda wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hype that LLMs are going to replace SWEs is clearly just that, hype LLMs cannot replace anyone, but it is clear that engineers which master LLMs usage might multiply their productivity by a lot. The question is: If one LLM assisted engineer can work 10x faster, will companies reduce their engineer staff by 90%?

To answer your question with a question if I may -- when did productivity increase in software ever result in headcount reduction? The competition also will have similar productivity gain.

There used to be a profession called "typist" where a skilled person would type up your dictation quickly and without wasting sheets of paper from typewriter error. Now it's all software

There used to be mailrooms filled with people sorting and delivering physical envelopes. Now it's all software.

Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming

#234

Post by matchagaucho »

afro88 wrote: post #178

The article shows everything that works for this approach. But it's a bit disingenuous. At the end: > Once this is working, Xu Hao can repeat the process for the rest of the tasks in the master plan. No, he can't. After that much back and forth and getting it to fix little things where it gives responses with the full code listing again, he would have easily hit the token limit (at least with any chat LLM capable of…

he would have easily hit the token limit

That was my first question. Do all these tasks fit within a 4K or 8K buffer?

Wouldn't be surprised, though, if it works in a 32K GPT4 token limit. Amazing things are possible.

Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming

#235

Post by chefandy »

rootusrootus wrote: post #155
gdubs wrote: post #154

There's an unfortunately common take on AI that goes basically like this: "I tried it and it didn't do what I wanted, not impressed." My suggestion is to tune out the noise and really try experimenting with these tools – and know that they're rapidly improving. Even if ultimately you have criticisms or decide one way or another, at least really investigate them for your own use-cases rather than jumping on a bandwago…

I agree it's a good idea to take a moderate approach. The hype that LLMs are going to replace SWEs is clearly just that, hype, if you've done any real work trying to get GPT4 to give you the code you want. But it's also clearly a very useful tool. I think it'll absolutely destroy Stack Overflow.

Nobody who professionally designs and writes software AND has used LLM code generation tools sees this as a drop-in replacement for developers, generally, anytime soon. That stance is for overeager, credulous enthusiasts and doomsdayers jumping to conclusions.

Similarly, nobody who professionally designs and creates complex art products sees this as a drop-in replacement for commercial artists anytime soon. That stance is for people dazzled by their new image-generation superpower who don't know how little they know about professional creative work.

I doubt the markets for utility-grade code work (e.g. customizing existing WordPress themes) or low-effort, high-volume creative assets (template-based logos, lightly customized game sprites) will survive. They're still real people with lives and families and medical bills and mortgages and we really ought to get serious about worker protections in this country. Seriously.

Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming

#237

Post by ok_dad »

stygiansonic wrote: post #231
ok_dad wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Google search became important, people structured their information so that Google could best index it. When AIs become important in the same way, people will start to structure their information so that a particular class of AI can best index it. If that involves API documentation, perhaps there will be a standard format that AIs understand the best.

The difference is that folks had an incentive to make their pages easily indexable: drive page views. With becoming training data the incentive to the creators is a little less clear

Yea right now sure. Later, there will be a clear incentive. Or not, if AI fails to become useful.

Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming

#238

Post by valray »

chefandy wrote: post #235
rootusrootus wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's a good idea to take a moderate approach. The hype that LLMs are going to replace SWEs is clearly just that, hype, if you've done any real work trying to get GPT4 to give you the code you want. But it's also clearly a very useful tool. I think it'll absolutely destroy Stack Overflow.

Nobody who professionally designs and writes software AND has used LLM code generation tools sees this as a drop-in replacement for developers, generally, anytime soon. That stance is for overeager, credulous enthusiasts and doomsdayers jumping to conclusions. Similarly, nobody who professionally designs and creates complex art products sees this as a drop-in replacement for commercial artists anytime soon. That stan…

In a few years, as mid-level cognitive tasks get automated by LLMs, resulting in elimination of some percent of well-paying white-collar jobs, there will be economic dislocation and social disruption.

Oligarchic capitalist societies with a hypocritical philosophy of free market economics (such as the USA) will experience social unrest and civil strife.

In the meantime, social-democratic societies that have effective governance and can grow their safety net with universal basic income will be advantaged in this new economic order. Thinking Scandinavian and some Asian economies.

The geopolitical balance of power will shift toward stable societies that are able to make the conceptual leap to UBI. Others who follow the primitive fantasy of free market economics will crumble and get left behind.

At least that is how it looks right now.

Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming

#239

Post by valray »

gumballindie wrote: post #217
drowsspa wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, the whole movement of getting blue collar workers to code seems to have lost its steam.

Probably because “graduating” bootcamps doesnt make one a swe and people figured out it’s a scam?

Also it requires an inherent level of talent which gets turned into skill.

Not everyone who takes piano and music harmony lessons can become a jazz composer, especially in 6 weeks or 6 months.

Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming

#240

Post by chefandy »

valray wrote: post #238
chefandy wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody who professionally designs and writes software AND has used LLM code generation tools sees this as a drop-in replacement for developers, generally, anytime soon. That stance is for overeager, credulous enthusiasts and doomsdayers jumping to conclusions. Similarly, nobody who professionally designs and creates complex art products sees this as a drop-in replacement for commercial artists anytime soon. That stan…

In a few years, as mid-level cognitive tasks get automated by LLMs, resulting in elimination of some percent of well-paying white-collar jobs, there will be economic dislocation and social disruption. Oligarchic capitalist societies with a hypocritical philosophy of free market economics (such as the USA) will experience social unrest and civil strife. In the meantime, social-democratic societies that have effective…

Maybe. I don't see any reason to assume the US won't continue to successfully a) escalate police power to keep citizens under control, b) continue giving people just enough crumbs to keep them from getting violent, and c) propagandize the hell out of the idea that societal mismanagement is a matter of personal responsibility. China has done pretty well while clamping down on civil liberties, and the US has always been better at obfuscating and spinning similar tactics to be more palatable to its citizens. And you only need to look at the rust belt to see what happens when US business leadership decides to follow the cheaper option.

Though, regardless of ensuing social unrest, the fact that the people involved are human beings should be enough to not treat them like used condoms when computers figure out how to do their jobs. Should be.

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