Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

oceanservice.noaa.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 636 posts

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#111

Post by antognini »

hanoz wrote: post #104
antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

> At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical school is that left/right always refer to the patient's perspective. Didn't know that! So how pervasive is this principal? Would it apply to a descriptive reference to a diagram in a book for example?

Yes. As a random example, you'll see that although the lungs are seen from the perspective of a doctor facing a patient, they are labelled left/right from the patient's perspective: https://www.therespiratorysystem.com/wp-content/uploads/2017...

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#112

Post by soneil »

gerdesj wrote: post #63
taeric wrote: post #6

This explanation feels kind of awkward. My left hand does not depend on my orientation, so I am unclear why the "left side" of a boat would. I get why there are better terms to use when talking about others. At least, I think I do. But it feels like there is more history to these terms than just "needs to be fixed."

True but you are not wandering around yourself! I agree though that the first para looks like just so nonsense. I know plenty of matelots (UK Navy) that use left and right, sharp end and blunt end for the cardinal points of a vessel. I do as well and use port, starb'd, bow and stern as they do too. Ironically enough, port and starboard markers which are the red and green buoys you see near to ports (yes!) need to be…

> Ironically enough, port and starboard markers which are the red and green buoys you see near to ports (yes!) need to be considered in reverse when going out. The green ones are called starboard markers and if you are in a big enough vessel, you should keep them off your starboard (right) side when approaching a port from the open seas. On the way out from port to the open seas you should keep the red ones on your right instead. If you don't you will hit the seabed and sink.

Just to keep things fun, that's the european convention. In the US it's "red right returning", the exact opposite.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#113

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

This is not the same explanation that I was familiar with. The one I heard was that long ago boats didn't have the rudder on the centerline, but was to one side. Because of this configuration you also had to have the dock on the other side. The rudder was called the a steer-board (eventually pronounced starboard). And the dock was the port so that became the port side. So now we have starboard and port sides of the ship from this old boat type.

Reminds me a similar bit about some dimension of the space shuttle being limited by the width of a horse's ass [0].

[0] https://dwanethomas.com/roman-chariots-and-the-space-shuttle...

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#114

Post by soneil »

rmrk wrote: post #36

It's funny to me that some olaf 1000 years ago just called them what they were; the steering side and the docking side, and now we have to use the same words which don't make any sense to us. I vote we just call them the steering-side and the docking-side again.

The steering side is now the back. And docking .. in the Mediterranean the docking side is commonly the back too. In Scandinavia it's commonly the front.

It's probably for the best that they've been detached from their original meanings.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#115

Post by dogmatism »

interroboink wrote: post #94
antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

Your medical comment reminded me of the fascinating constellation of terminology used to identify locations and orientations in anatomy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomical_terms_of_location Some of the terms: dorsal/ventral, proximal/distal, anterior/posterior, superior/inferior, oral/aboral, basal/apical When you're describing something like a microbe, the terms get fairly arbitrary; which is the "head" end of…

the thing that's tricky is basal/apical can be different directions: i.e. the base of the lung is at the bottom, the base of the left ventricle (in the heart) at the top. You have to know the shape of the organ to know. There's also cranial/caudal, axial/coronal/sagittal just off the top of my head

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#116

Post by CardenB »

lsaferite wrote: post #47
CardenB wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not distracting. There are many intense situations on a boat, and a crew is required to cooperate in order to survive. This means you must have extremely precise wording to quickly explain what needs to be done. This vocabulary is important for this reason, and is able to sharpen focus, rather than distract. It requires a process of learning, and that is intentional.

In English "right" is one syllable and "starboard" is two. All things considered, using right/left is more concise. If you are aware enough of your orientation on a boat to know where port and starboard are located, you are also aware enough to know where left and right are located.

You spend much at least one more syllable to indicate which frame of reference (local or boat). It’s easier to map it to a vocab word.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#117

Post by bckygldstn »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

> stage left / stage right

Outdoor recreation often uses climbers left/right and skiers left/right (even when there's no rock or snow) to orient direction relative to slope, which is similarly descriptive and clear to those who haven't heard the terms before.

Except for rivers, where True Left and True Right are commonly used in New Zealand for hiking and kayaking, and I can never remember which way round they go!

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#118

Post by silisili »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #113

This is not the same explanation that I was familiar with. The one I heard was that long ago boats didn't have the rudder on the centerline, but was to one side. Because of this configuration you also had to have the dock on the other side. The rudder was called the a steer-board (eventually pronounced starboard). And the dock was the port so that became the port side. So now we have starboard and port sides of the s…

Sorry, how is it not? AFAICT this is the same thing the linked article says.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#119

Post by yowzadave »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

Interestingly, on tennis courts you have the “deuce” side, which is to the right of the player, and the “ad” side, which is to the left of the player. Because you have two players facing each other, the deuce sides for each player are diagonally opposite from a neutral observer’s perspective.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#120

Post by matt-attack »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

Interesting. I always assumed “stage left” meant from the perspective of looking at the stage.
Post reply on HN