Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#421

Post by GuB-42 » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:31 PM UTC

bottlepalm wrote: post #78

It’s funny for what is essentially a ‘file manager’ Microsoft makes it hell to manage your files. My friends and family and constantly confused by the 10 different interfaces there are for file management. Desktops are a mess of of half trash files. The cloud integration the file explorer is a confusing mess. The UI for saving a file from Office is the absolute worst. I’ve had to help someone just save a file and it…

File management in Windows is, I think, the best for a consumer OS, on par with Linux (sometimes better, sometime worse, depending on your distro).

Not because it is good, but because Microsoft can't keep up with the others when it comes to messing up file management.

iOS: you essentially don't have files, just internal storage for apps

Android: you have files, but they are making it really hard to access them

MacOS: actually not that bad, but they still try hard to hide the filesystem from you

Linux: it is a UNIX system, files are everything and you have free access, but the experience tends to be inconsistent because there is no standard toolkit

With Windows, you have full access to the filesystem (depending on your permissions of course), the UI has become inconsistent lately, but there is almost always a way to get to the common file picker, and the explorer shell is quite nice: you can open file, copy, move, drag and drop, etc... with relative consistency. These operations seem trivial but if you have used some bare bone Linux desktops, you will realize that they are not.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#422

Post by cduzz » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:31 PM UTC

nordsieck wrote: post #373

cduzz wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try to be clear here: Microsoft is selling your eyeballs to advertisers: You are the product not the customer. Vendors are buying windows from Microsoft and installing it onto a computer and selling that computer to you. You are buying a computer not windows. If you need support you talk to the vendor, not microsoft. The vendor is the customer to Microsoft, not you. And regarding cars -- car companies make lots…

> Microsoft is selling your eyeballs to advertisers: You are the product not the customer. > Vendors are buying windows from Microsoft and installing it onto a computer and selling that computer to you. You are buying a computer not windows. Sometimes people are buying Windows[1]. It is possible to be the customer for the OS and the product for the ads at the same time. --- 1. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/window…

Microsoft clearly has zero interest in the idiots who buy retail licenses, especially home licenses. They'll cash your check, but they're not going to pay any attention to your opinions. You're trapped in their ecosystem and they have no reason to pay attention to your desires. They're going to sell your eyeballs to as many advertisers as possible and there's nothing you can do about it.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#423

Post by ShadowBanThis01 » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:32 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #54

> As Microsoft puts it: “We are continuing the exploration of badging on the Start menu with several new treatments for users logging in with local user accounts to highlight the benefits of signing in with a Microsoft account (MSA).” What is Microsoft really thinking here? You have to go out of your way (and probably do a web search) in order to figure out how to install Win 11 without using a Microsoft Account. So…

"You have to go out of your way (and probably do a web search) in order to figure out how to install Win 11 without using a Microsoft Account."

You are not kidding. I bought my parents two computers and set them up from scratch, taking pains to create local user accounts (because they don't have Microsoft accounts). On one of them, I have no idea how, the sole user ID still managed to be a POS "Microsoft account" created with an arbitrary number of characters from my dad's E-mail ID or something.

The endless badgering to log in with a "Microsoft account" that nobody wants or needs is enough to make me not use Windows. It is beyond offensive at this point.

Dear Microsoft: NOBODY NEEDS ANOTHER "ACCOUNT." This offensive hounding, in combination with the fact that Windows is a disgraceful mess from form to function now, makes it an afterthought in my household. I'm a software developer, and I don't have a single installation of Windows running in my home (and office).

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#424

Post by jm4 » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:32 PM UTC

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #419

jm4 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a Windows user anymore, but I think you're selling them short. Windows has been a very good OS for 20+ years. If you think it's bad now, you should have seen it during the Windows 95/98/ME era. Around 2000-ish, they started getting serious about security and they began the conversion of their mainstream OS to the NT kernel. Since then it's been rock solid and the backwards compatibility is second to none. It'…

The shitty UI, the lack of a tolerable shell (Powershell isn't). It's difficult to get a clear picture of what processes are running if it starts behaving sketchy. These things make it mediocre. Sure, it's not the dumpsterfire filled with radioactive cobalt that it was back in 1995 or so when I started using it... but if that's the best it can say, it's sort of like Cleveland's "At least we're not Detroit!" tourism c…

I'll give you that point about the shell. I don't care for it either.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#425

Post by CoastalCoder » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:33 PM UTC

whalesalad wrote: post #410

CoastalCoder wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my position as well. Even if we just look at it from a hedonistic perspective. I play games to be happy and destress. Windows' abusiveness and anticheat software make me unhappy and/or stressed. For pure hedonism I'm better off with Proton and a smaller selection of games.

My friends and I live all around the US. The one game we all play together has anticheat. It also happens to be cross platform and they are on console. As far as being happy - being able to cross play with my buds and voice chat while we are thousands of miles apart is well worth it.

That makes sense. I guess if I were in your situation, the calculation could push me into using Windows.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#426

Post by cduzz » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:34 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #327

toss1 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>That could mean scrapping the project because it's unpopular, but could also mean narrowing the focus to the smaller population that really does want what you're selling. ... or, keep improving the product to the point where most people actually find it useful, which is obviously an option for Microsoft, with cash reserves to fund centuries of development. Find out what the downsides are, and fix them, or offer act…

> or, keep improving the product to the point where most people actually find it useful Some product ideas can't be made desirable and useful no matter how much improvement they get.

Desirable to who ? Windows 11 users are the product not the _customer_

You, a windows 11 licensee, are a captive market for microsoft to sell your eyeballs to advertisers.

"I am going to sell clicks to advertisers and the cost of customer acquisition is negative $10 per customer -- they pay us to get advertised to!"

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#427

Post by ShadowBanThis01 » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:34 PM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #299

JohnFen wrote: post #54

> As Microsoft puts it: “We are continuing the exploration of badging on the Start menu with several new treatments for users logging in with local user accounts to highlight the benefits of signing in with a Microsoft account (MSA).” What is Microsoft really thinking here? You have to go out of your way (and probably do a web search) in order to figure out how to install Win 11 without using a Microsoft Account. So…

Can you imagine being in the Windows product design meeting and someone says: “No means NO! The user did not activate their account and we should respect that not harass them!” Would never happen.

It would if anyone with self-respect works there. I've done similar things at Apple, and I would damn well do it at Microsoft.

At some point in your career you decide you don't have to suck up anymore. Could be day one; could be year 10. But it should happen.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#428

Post by flangola7 » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:35 PM UTC

JCWasmx86 wrote: post #68

JohnFen wrote: post #54

> As Microsoft puts it: “We are continuing the exploration of badging on the Start menu with several new treatments for users logging in with local user accounts to highlight the benefits of signing in with a Microsoft account (MSA).” What is Microsoft really thinking here? You have to go out of your way (and probably do a web search) in order to figure out how to install Win 11 without using a Microsoft Account. So…

Companies should really accept a "No" from their users. No I don't want to use a microsoft account just to use my computer. (Without jumping through hoops) Don't ask me again the moment I say "No". You can see the same with all those dialogs that only have "Yes, do $THING" and "Remind me later".

It's terrifying how many people in business clearly have a complete lack of understanding of what consent means.

I've heard comments like "behind every no is a yes" made with a straight face, as if it wasn't insanely horrible and gross.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#429

Post by solraph » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:37 PM UTC

snvzz wrote: post #403

Zak wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arch Linux is a great choice for someone who wants to know Linux . I am writing this comment from Arch Linux. Arch Linux is not a great choice for someone who just wants to use Linux. There's a lot of learning just to install it, while less expert-oriented distributions can have a system up and running in 20 minutes with very little expertise on the part of the user.

Serious question here: Why would someone NOT want to know Linux? When ignoring the short term, what's the advantage, if any, of using a system without mastering it?

Because they have other things they need to do, and mastering it may not provide benefits that repay the investment.

I say this as someone who has run Linux on the Desktop for over 20 years. I do not give a crap about knowing the ins and outs of everything on my system. I have zero interest in learning how bluetooth & Wifi & and all of the hundred other subsystems on my computers work. 99% of the time I want to install the OS, and get on with work.

Sometimes that work means getting down and dirty with a subsystem when I want it to do things that isn't on the normal happy path, but the rest of the time, I want Wifi to autoconnect with a saved password and my bluetooth headphones to autoconnect like a normal person and not futz around learning the intricacies of every daemon and config file in the OS.

It's same reason I pay someone else to service my car. I have fully capable of learning to do it, but I don't care. I have better things to do with my time and money, and there's only so many hours in the day.

(Several edits because I misplaced lots of words pre-coffee)

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#430

Post by petepete » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 11:43 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #314

eimrine wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debian-based distribs are very beginner-friendly and Ubuntu's forum is full of helpful users.

Ubuntu was my pick, main reasom being that it is the distro Lenovo is offering and thus guaranteed to work with my Lenovo laptop. Agree on the usefull forums and information. No idea how it compares to other distros, I never tried any. It is a breath of fresh air compared to Windows 10 so!

If you have a ThinkPad, RHEL is supported on nearly every machine Ubuntu is.

https://www.lenovo.com/linux

Fedora works flawlessly in my experience.