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Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

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Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#61

Post by taeric »

dceddia wrote: post #54
taeric wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't accurate, either. Most of us are decidedly not facing the direction of travel. Specifically, we are evenly split in large parts of the boat, as they have bench chairs that face each other. Or you are on the side of the boat facing out. The ferry is actually a very odd boat in this, btw. As I am not clear that starboard/port are fixed. The boat literally goes in both directions, such that I'm assuming I don…

Port and starboard are indeed fixed (same with bow and stern), so that no matter which way the boat is moving or the passengers are facing, those words always refer to the same physical sides of the boat :)

Per another thread, this may not be the case for ferries? At least not for ones that don't turn around. (Note that many "people ferry" boats are able to turn around. Larger car ferries are fully symmetric and have no fixed bow/stern.

Edit: I found more discussion on this by searching for "double ended" boats. Port/starboard do indeed change depending on the direction of travel from all results I've found.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#62

Post by wpietri »

rmrk wrote: post #36

It's funny to me that some olaf 1000 years ago just called them what they were; the steering side and the docking side, and now we have to use the same words which don't make any sense to us. I vote we just call them the steering-side and the docking-side again.

Unfortunately, we no longer have consistent steering and docking sides. So first you're going to have to rebuild a lot of ships.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#63

Post by gerdesj »

taeric wrote: post #6

This explanation feels kind of awkward. My left hand does not depend on my orientation, so I am unclear why the "left side" of a boat would. I get why there are better terms to use when talking about others. At least, I think I do. But it feels like there is more history to these terms than just "needs to be fixed."

True but you are not wandering around yourself! I agree though that the first para looks like just so nonsense. I know plenty of matelots (UK Navy) that use left and right, sharp end and blunt end for the cardinal points of a vessel. I do as well and use port, starb'd, bow and stern as they do too.

Ironically enough, port and starboard markers which are the red and green buoys you see near to ports (yes!) need to be considered in reverse when going out. The green ones are called starboard markers and if you are in a big enough vessel, you should keep them off your starboard (right) side when approaching a port from the open seas. On the way out from port to the open seas you should keep the red ones on your right instead. If you don't you will hit the seabed and sink.

Once you have got the hang of p/s buoys, you just need to get to grips with cardinal markers and a few other things and the way you drive on the sea will start to make sense. Even Brits drive on the right on the seas!

There is a general rule that "power gives way to sail". That's fine for vessels of similar size. However I have seen 30' yachts on the Baltic try to persuade 100,000+ tonne tankers of this and not really getting the fact that inertia means that the big lump can't really turn in any meaningful way - they sort of orbit!

Overtaking vessel keeps clear. On odd numbered years when Mars is in Saturn on a Friday you should dance with a Nun for three minutes at midnight every 70 days, unless it's Lent or you are a Nun in which case you should dance with an otter. There are a few more rules but that is largely it. Maritime isn't too complicated but do remember that the road has a habit of jumping 30' or more upwards or down simply for a laugh.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#64

Post by dvt »

taeric wrote: post #43
xg15 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in that situation, you can confidently tell them to look to their right, because you can assume that most of them will sit in direction of travel and face forward. However, the same is not true for a sailor who might be running around on deck.

This isn't accurate, either. Most of us are decidedly not facing the direction of travel. Specifically, we are evenly split in large parts of the boat, as they have bench chairs that face each other. Or you are on the side of the boat facing out. The ferry is actually a very odd boat in this, btw. As I am not clear that starboard/port are fixed. The boat literally goes in both directions, such that I'm assuming I don…

> The ferry is actually a very odd boat in this, btw. As I am not clear that starboard/port are fixed. The boat literally goes in both directions, such that I'm assuming I don't have to know which is the "front" of it irrespective of the direction it is currently traveling.

From what I understand, on ferries (and similar "two-sided" working boats), port and starboard get switched around when the boat changes direction of travel, usually when docked (and its navigation lights also turn from green to red and vice-versa).

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#65

Post by wpietri »

tomohelix wrote: post #15
java-man wrote: post #5

I wonder why more people are right-handed. What could be a biological basis for that?

Probably the same reason why most biomolecules are chiral, i.e. having left and right side. Last time I read about this, I think some physicist said something about the rotation of elementary particles and radiation stuff that are way over my head.

I doubt that, as we left-handers are made up of the same sort of molecule as everybody else.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#66

Post by DonHopkins »

harry8 wrote: post #51
tim_hutton wrote: post #28

The only was I can remember which is port and starboard is by thinking about boarding an airplane. The steps/tunnel are always docked on the 'port' side, just as boats always dock on the port side. The cockpit/bow is always on your left when you board.

Always? Ferries are boats, demonstrably not true there as they dock both sides.

And "fore" and "aft" are useful to disambiguate the ends of boats that flip 90 degrees in pitch, because the front becomes the top and the back becomes the bottom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvLeK9O7fY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shPATcV9Dzw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQxQfQU_hsk

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#67

Post by wpietri »

lsaferite wrote: post #47
CardenB wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not distracting. There are many intense situations on a boat, and a crew is required to cooperate in order to survive. This means you must have extremely precise wording to quickly explain what needs to be done. This vocabulary is important for this reason, and is able to sharpen focus, rather than distract. It requires a process of learning, and that is intentional.

In English "right" is one syllable and "starboard" is two. All things considered, using right/left is more concise. If you are aware enough of your orientation on a boat to know where port and starboard are located, you are also aware enough to know where left and right are located.

Concision is way less important than clarity.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#68

Post by GuB-42 »

java-man wrote: post #5

I wonder why more people are right-handed. What could be a biological basis for that?

There is an interesting game theory explanation.

Having the opposite handedness of most other people (i.e. being left-handed) is an advantage in a fight. That's because righties are used to fight against other righties because most people are righties, lefties are also used to fight against other righties. It means that when a lefty fights a righty, the lefty is in a familiar situation while the righty is not, giving the lefty an advantage. And indeed, in many sports where you have an opponent, at high level, there is a higher than normal proportion of lefties.

On the other hand (pun not intended), having the same handedness as most other people (i.e. being right-handed) is an avantage for cooperation. For example, to righties can easily share a tool made for righties, but it will be awkward for a lefty.

So there are two opposing forces here: cooperation tends to make people of all the same handedness, while competition pushes for a 50/50 distribution. We are at about 90/10, suggesting that the cooperation aspect is more important but not absolutely so.

That dominant side is the right side is probably just due to random chance. That it doesn't differ between population groups suggest that it happened before humans spread around the globe, possibly before humans were human.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#69

Post by 867-5309 »

fishtoaster wrote: post #26

Because you need to differentiate between "my left when facing the boat" and "my left when on the boat facing forward" or really, left from any other perspective. And any time there's a multi-word phrase like that that gets used a lot over many years, it gets shortened.

they need the same terminology for humans:

"raise you left hand. no, your other left!"

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#70

Post by dceddia »

taeric wrote: post #61
dceddia wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Port and starboard are indeed fixed (same with bow and stern), so that no matter which way the boat is moving or the passengers are facing, those words always refer to the same physical sides of the boat :)

Per another thread, this may not be the case for ferries? At least not for ones that don't turn around. (Note that many "people ferry" boats are able to turn around. Larger car ferries are fully symmetric and have no fixed bow/stern. Edit: I found more discussion on this by searching for "double ended" boats. Port/starboard do indeed change depending on the direction of travel from all results I've found.

Hmm interesting. Wonder if they have some non-symmetrical parts, like the location of the engine maybe?
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