Live data from Hacker News

Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

oceanservice.noaa.gov

51–60 of 636 posts

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#51

The only was I can remember which is port and starboard is by thinking about boarding an airplane. The steps/tunnel are always docked on the 'port' side, just as boats always dock on the port side. The cockpit/bow is always on your left when you board.

Always? Ferries are boats, demonstrably not true there as they dock both sides.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because left and right are ambiguous - are you talking about MY left or the boat’s left? Having unambiguous names let’s us differentiate and avoid confusion. It might be hard to grok the need for this if you’ve never been in a tight spot while sailing or operating a watercraft with a crew - but having this distinction has probably saved thousands of bad incidents from happening.

Yes but why would you ever be talking about your left? Use the definite article, THE left, and it should be clear by convention for the sailors. I think it's just historical.

There are other uses for the definite article. E.g., "Down the hall and on the left." It's also used in relation to motion. "Go to the left of that ship." Even if you went with it, though, it still has the potential to be confusing.

Speaking as somebody who sails occasionally, to me "left" and "port" are just very different concepts. It's sort of like driver's side and passenger's side of the car, but more intense. So I think the desire to use "left" mainly comes from people who don't spend much time on ships, an audience, not particularly important to sailors. Sort of like how non-programmers might struggle with some of our technical terms, but we'd never change.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#53
post #8

I understand that the terms are mostly unambiguous, but I always wonder how these get defined in edge cases. For example ferries, at least where I live, alternate the direction of travel as they go back and forth. There isn't a fixed "bow" or "stern" from which to define port and starboard.

Ha! I thought of this in one of the down thread discussions. Very curious on any official answer here, and I'll have to pay attention to the lights on the ferry, next time I'm on it.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#54
post #43
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in that situation, you can confidently tell them to look to their right, because you can assume that most of them will sit in direction of travel and face forward. However, the same is not true for a sailor who might be running around on deck.

This isn't accurate, either. Most of us are decidedly not facing the direction of travel. Specifically, we are evenly split in large parts of the boat, as they have bench chairs that face each other. Or you are on the side of the boat facing out. The ferry is actually a very odd boat in this, btw. As I am not clear that starboard/port are fixed. The boat literally goes in both directions, such that I'm assuming I don…

Port and starboard are indeed fixed (same with bow and stern), so that no matter which way the boat is moving or the passengers are facing, those words always refer to the same physical sides of the boat :)

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#55
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if I'm looking at you and speak of your left hand, I am not speaking of the hand to my left. Literally nobody does that. At least not on purpose.

Do you own a car? Commonly when speaking with a mechanic they'll ask questions like Driver's side or Passenger's side to get away from left/right. People very often describe things with just _left_ or just _right_. They don't say things like when I'm sitting in the car the door to my left is hard to open. They just say the left door is broken even when both them and the mechanic are facing the car head on. By having…

Ambiguity can be cultural. In some dialects in the Philippines, the only required preposition is "sa". Others exist, but aren't required for speaking.

It's intriguing to say the least.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#56
post #8

I understand that the terms are mostly unambiguous, but I always wonder how these get defined in edge cases. For example ferries, at least where I live, alternate the direction of travel as they go back and forth. There isn't a fixed "bow" or "stern" from which to define port and starboard.

This is a great question imo but I struggled to find anything very good. I found a forum post, https://www.sailnet.com/threads/double-ended-ferries-which-e... and between the trolling it seems that fore/aft and port/starboard switch when the direction reverses, including eg navigation lights (red for port, green for starboard). And they tend to also have a one end and a two end or an A/B end, and those labels don’t c…

I've seen the 1 and 2 labels on barges near me.

I suspect they just don't use this terminology, unless it's to communicate with other vessels, and then it's presumably based on movement direction like you say.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#57

The only was I can remember which is port and starboard is by thinking about boarding an airplane. The steps/tunnel are always docked on the 'port' side, just as boats always dock on the port side. The cockpit/bow is always on your left when you board.

It's not true in general that boats always dock on the port side.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#58
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you face the back of the boat the sides reverse. It’s similar to stage left. When you can’t afford to be confused, one name is better than a conflicting argument between your left and the boats left.

But if I'm looking at you and speak of your left hand, I am not speaking of the hand to my left. Literally nobody does that. At least not on purpose.

What if you're addressing someone on a boat who's facing sideways? Or a group of people facing different directions? Or you can't see them and don't know which direction they're facing, and they don't know which direction you're facing?

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but why would you ever be talking about your left? Use the definite article, THE left, and it should be clear by convention for the sailors. I think it's just historical.

Imagine you are crew, standing on a ship. You are facing east, and the bow of the ship is facing north. It’s night and there is a thick fog. You hear a cry “man overboard on the left!” Where is the overboard person? Are they to your left, the ships left, or the left of the person shouting? If the cry is instead “man overboard on the port side!” there is no question.

Great points. And I'd add that thanks to wind and water, ships can also move in directions besides the obvious one. So it's possible in this case the boat could be moving west, giving another direction that left could be relative to.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#60
post #8

I understand that the terms are mostly unambiguous, but I always wonder how these get defined in edge cases. For example ferries, at least where I live, alternate the direction of travel as they go back and forth. There isn't a fixed "bow" or "stern" from which to define port and starboard.

The Washington State ferry system uses double-ended vessels with a pilot house on each end with the crew swapping between them at each crossing. Whichever end the crew are at becomes the bow.[1]

Funny -- I've ridden the ferries a lot and never really thought about it.

1. https://www.sailnet.com/threads/double-ended-ferries-which-e...

Post reply on HN