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Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

theregister.com

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Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#371

Post by ThatMedicIsASpy »

yarg wrote: post #289
pbz wrote: post #167

These kinds of changes just make the OS look cheap (like a bazaar of sorts). They're visually ugly, but easily ignored (I rarely open the start menu). What I'm more concerned / annoyed by is the trend of Windows fighting with you. For example, try to disable the real-time antivirus protection. The UI makes it look like it's off, but then it turns back on by itself. Then you go to group policy to make it explicit that…

I tried to play spider solitaire not too long ago. It used to be a clean simple application, now it's adware - literal adware in the professional version of a non-free OS. Utter fucking madness. I quit in disgust and had another go at Tumbleweed. Windows 11 made KDE better.

Valve (Steam Deck) using it and paying devs to fix things also helps.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#372

Post by firstlink »

JCWasmx86 wrote: post #68
JohnFen wrote: post #54

> As Microsoft puts it: “We are continuing the exploration of badging on the Start menu with several new treatments for users logging in with local user accounts to highlight the benefits of signing in with a Microsoft account (MSA).” What is Microsoft really thinking here? You have to go out of your way (and probably do a web search) in order to figure out how to install Win 11 without using a Microsoft Account. So…

Companies should really accept a "No" from their users. No I don't want to use a microsoft account just to use my computer. (Without jumping through hoops) Don't ask me again the moment I say "No". You can see the same with all those dialogs that only have "Yes, do $THING" and "Remind me later".

Companies don't actually care at all when you say no. Developers who can leverage a 2% kpi bump into a promotion care, and are driving this. (And to be clear, they don't get the promotion because "the company" cares, but because their management chain can transitively benefit.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#373

Post by nordsieck »

cduzz wrote: post #366
alex_young wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe you've proven the point you're attempting to make. Tesla is a rather famous example of a car manufacturer that doesn't have a dealership model. Do you imagine that GM or Toyota is somehow less interested in how their cars are either liked or disliked by their target audiences than Tesla is? That seems pretty hard to imagine.

I'll try to be clear here: Microsoft is selling your eyeballs to advertisers: You are the product not the customer. Vendors are buying windows from Microsoft and installing it onto a computer and selling that computer to you. You are buying a computer not windows. If you need support you talk to the vendor, not microsoft. The vendor is the customer to Microsoft, not you. And regarding cars -- car companies make lots…

> Microsoft is selling your eyeballs to advertisers: You are the product not the customer.

> Vendors are buying windows from Microsoft and installing it onto a computer and selling that computer to you. You are buying a computer not windows.

Sometimes people are buying Windows[1].

It is possible to be the customer for the OS and the product for the ads at the same time.

---

1. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/windows-11-home/dg7gmgf0kr...

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#374

Post by drbawb »

>"Thinking realistically, every software I use with the notable exception of Windows and DaVinci Resolve switched to a subscription model. If Microsoft doesn't do that and pushes its OneDrive and 365 subs via the task bar every now and then I'm personally okay with that. Better than paying $$$ every month just to use the OS."

OneDrive and Office is the subscription for Windows. Having worked in a repair shop I can tell you that the layperson thinks the OS is synonymous with "their data" and "their applications." If you said to them verbatim that you're "reinstalling their OS", and you give them back a computer with all their "Recently Used" menus empty, missing programs, all default settings, browser favorites are gone, their Outlook PST is missing, and the Office Key you ripped off the machine was an OEM license that won't activate through normal channels: that individual is going to be very cross with you.

Turns out it's really hard to sell retail customers "nothing for something", and to the average person an empty Windows install is useless. Gate their productivity suite (input) and storage (output) behind a subscription, though, and suddenly you have a customer hooked for life.

I've also seen this playout with Apple Users: their iCloud subscription lapses, or their storage on the free tier runs out, and it stops syncing photos and videos. Eventually the phone takes a dive in the ocean, or a toilet, or just dies of old age. The user goes to the Apple store and is emotionally devastated when they sign in to iCloud on their new phone only to find it is missing the last year of their life. Users aren't going to swear off Apple products, the backup and usability story on Android is a nightmare by comparison, they're just going to let the Genius Bar upsell them into the $2.99 protection racket.

---

It's also worth noting that Windows Enterprise is already a subscription. To use Enterprise (GA servicing channel) you need to have an Windows E3/E5 license, or active Software Assurance. The problem is these subscriptions only work because Microsoft has the power to audit VL customers, and those customers tend to have the pockets to pay up remediation or legal fees. _The only reason Windows Home/Pro are not subscriptions is because Microsoft never figured out the economics of auditing retail consumers._

If consumers are leasing their storage and programs from you, though, it turns out you don't need to audit them.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#375

Post by firstlink »

marcosdumay wrote: post #248
mihaaly wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without client conciousness clients will be fcked! Sooner or later will be, as their agressive provider shoves more and more crap down their throat without resistance it will only make that provider more and more determined feeding even more crap for fortunes. Not being satisfied and stop. It will continue into the eternity if can. When something is forced on you that you do not want or even harmful for you then not…

Don't come with client consciousness. MS's deal with computer manufacturers makes them pay more if they want to not install Windows on all of the computers they sell. And when some decided to just sell computers, you know, unbundled, the way that maximizes consumer choice, they were framed as criminally enriching from piracy and lots of governments felt into them with all their rage. It's not the client's fault that…

> corrupt powerful people use violence to take down their rights.

Sir this is a Wendy's.

Or at least, a thread about start menu ads. Touch grass and gain perspective.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#376

Post by msm_ »

npteljes wrote: post #331
JCWasmx86 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies should really accept a "No" from their users. No I don't want to use a microsoft account just to use my computer. (Without jumping through hoops) Don't ask me again the moment I say "No". You can see the same with all those dialogs that only have "Yes, do $THING" and "Remind me later".

Companies should be regulated to offer No as an option, and to make that option for all intents are purposes equally represented. No other way will work. Abuse makes a lot of money.

Sounds good, but what does it mean in practice?

- Does every program need to support offline account? (what about MMO games?)

- Does every program need to support online account? (tongue in cheek, for people who prefer online services)

- What if I don't want to install a particular Windows update because I dislike something about it? Right now I can stay forever on an obsolete version (I assume), but that's not "equally represented" - my computer is broken now.

I think it's very hard (or borderline impossible) to do what you ask for. Even in Open Source, where choice is almost a religion, not all options are equally easy for users.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#377

Post by jackmott »

cduzz wrote: post #251
whoopdedo wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's what the phrase "the customer is always right" originally meant. It means you can do all the market research, development, testing, polling, and seeding to sell a product. But the ultimate decider of whether the product is "good" is whether or not the people buy it. If your sales plan flops don't say "it's not the product's fault, I just need to do a better job marketing it." No, the product is wrong, the custom…

Please define "Customer" in this context? There are several parties at this party. One is the person who bought a computer with an operating system on it; possibly they even paid for the operating system itself, though more likely they are using the operating system that came on the computer they're using. Another party is the one who bought a license from microsoft; occasionally they're the same party but more typic…

[dead]

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#378

Post by yamazakiwi »

pengaru wrote: post #96

MS Windows is the daytime television of operating systems: If you're still using it in 2023 you have only yourself to blame. It's not like there aren't better options at your disposal...

There are many that don't have control over what operating system they use.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#379

Post by ThatMedicIsASpy »

Dah00n wrote: post #355
causi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should've learned having taste is an instant disqualifier for employment at Microsoft after Windows 8.

Surely you must mean after Windows 7? Windows 8 was the beginning of the pile of poo that is Windows on the PC-playing-a-tablet and Microsoft just dig deeper and deeper with every new version down the awful tablet design they have going on.

I actually liked parts of it (W8) on my tablets. I chose windows tablets exactly because I know I get updates for years (except now with the TPM requirement for W11). I still use a Yoga 2 8" tablet (9yrs old) every day in bed.

Even though I run Linux on everything else I haven't tried and or messed with it on a tablet. I do not consider my Steam Deck as a tablet - I do use it a lot as one but 99% of the time I enjoy the controller input over touch.

I just can't find a replacement for my Yoga 2 8". The front facing speakers are amazing and every new version of this tablet runs android which is an auto skip for me.

Re: Microsoft plugging more ads into Windows 11 Start Menu

#380

Post by firstlink »

afandian wrote: post #158
xattt wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies should really accept a "No" from their users. At some point, it gets into “creepy pervert” territory.

I got this from BBC Sounds app. https://imgur.com/a/CSMwv96 A full screen dialogue box with no other way of dismissing it but “maybe later”. “Switch on notifications and we'll find new releases that you might like, so you don't have to. Sounds good Maybe later” No shred of concern for consent. I get if you’re a scrappy startup growth hacking taking ethical shortcuts. But a public service broadcaster should have bette…

Look this stuff might be stupid but they really don't need your consent to do offer certain features on their website/app which you are voluntarily using.

It seems you are the one who does not understand consent.

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