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Astral

astral.sh

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Re: Astral

#51

Post by kleaver »

I wonder if the eventual goal of this is similar to deno, where it's about building really good, no-hassle tooling/ecosystem for a language and then making it very simple to deploy/host (if I'm misspeaking about deno please correct me, I'm not well versed on it).

One thing I like most about Go is actually the Go tool; having a ubiquitous linter, formatter, test framework, dependency management, etc, all built in and not having to install various tools is huge imo. I think a lot of languages are missing this ease of tooling. I think (?) this is what deno/astral is trying to address for javascript/python and then the business model is once you're using it, it's simple to host with them. Curious what other think

Re: Astral

#52

Post by ZephyrBlu »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #34
swyx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Charlie Marsh is just a damn good developer curious how you assessed this. did you inspect the code or are you just commenting from the user POV?

Eating at a restaurant: - "This chef is a great cook!" - "How do you know, have you looked inside the kitchen?"

Code is not food. You can create a great product with shit code (Or just mediocre code!). Does that make someone a good dev, or a bad dev?

How you come to the conclusion he's "just a damn good developer" is a very fair question.

Re: Astral

#53

Post by Night_Thastus »

senko wrote: post #49
Night_Thastus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Black was an auto-formatter, similar to clang-format, but for Python. Ruff seems to be only doing linting, not formatting. Am I missing something?

Ruff will be getting more autoformat capabilities: see the link in parent poster and also read the first comment there, from one of Black maintainers.

Pretty bold to try to replace Flake8 and Black with one tool. I hope they succeed. Would be great to have a tool that does both and is substantially faster.

Re: Astral

#54

Post by senko »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #53
senko wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ruff will be getting more autoformat capabilities: see the link in parent poster and also read the first comment there, from one of Black maintainers.

Pretty bold to try to replace Flake8 and Black with one tool. I hope they succeed. Would be great to have a tool that does both and is substantially faster.

Indeed.

I do hope they'll expose Ruff as a Python module / API in the future. I'm currently using Black to format Python code that's in-memory (never gets written out to disk).

With Black (as an imported Py module), it's just a matter of passing in a string and getting one back. With Ruff as it is now, I'd have to write that out to disk, spawn Ruff process, then read the formatted file back in. Do that for many files and the speed advantages disappear, and actually it's slower.

Re: Astral

#55

Post by senko »

I am at once:

- happy because Ruff deserves full time focus and having a team that can focus on tooling as their main product (not a nights&weekends hobby) is a clear win for everyone;

but also

- concerned because VC is not charity, and this must surely come with strings attached (in terms of future growth); I haven't seen many VCs aiming for "sustainable profitable business providing great value for the community" type exits; then again, if this turns into a Hashicorp-type story that wouldn't be too bad an outcome either

Re: Astral

#56

Post by singhrac »

I cannot comment on the feasibility of building a profitable open source business around Python tooling, but I can say that I'm very very glad someone is taking that risk: both Charlie in career/business risks, and the VCs in taking on the financial risk. I just get to benefit - ruff is really nice and I anticipate big improvements to Python tooling as a result, at no cost to me.

Re: Astral

#57

Post by jfb »

If they can get a good type checker in ruff, or produce one as comparably better than mypy than ruff is from pre-existing tools ... well.

Re: Astral

#58

Post by ajkjk »

swyx wrote: post #30
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #14

It's true that being that much faster is interesting, but that's not the only reason. ruff is just really good. It has sane defaults, it is easy to use and configure. It can replace not one but multiple tools. From day one it had few bugs or integration problems. Charlie Marsh is just a damn good developer, on top of driving a good product vision. That's rare. Lots of respect to that.

> Charlie Marsh is just a damn good developer curious how you assessed this. did you inspect the code or are you just commenting from the user POV?

The rest of the post you're replying to is a list of evidence, that claim was summarizing everything else.

Re: Astral

#59

Post by ashtonbaker »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #52
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating at a restaurant: - "This chef is a great cook!" - "How do you know, have you looked inside the kitchen?"

Code is not food. You can create a great product with shit code (Or just mediocre code!). Does that make someone a good dev, or a bad dev? How you come to the conclusion he's "just a damn good developer" is a very fair question.

I think it's actually basically the same. Being a clean, organized cook is probably positively correlated with making good food, but it's not strictly necessary. If someone is writing sloppy code but shipping a project of this overall quality without leaking the "low quality" of their implementation, then I wouldn't presume to call them a "bad dev" - I would probably conclude that they're more efficient than I am at prioritizing where to spend organizational energy.

Re: Astral

#60

Post by BiteCode_dev »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #52
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating at a restaurant: - "This chef is a great cook!" - "How do you know, have you looked inside the kitchen?"

Code is not food. You can create a great product with shit code (Or just mediocre code!). Does that make someone a good dev, or a bad dev? How you come to the conclusion he's "just a damn good developer" is a very fair question.

In this analogy, the food is the entire project, and a dev does much more than coding. You can do one thing right with luck, you can't do most things right by luck alone.

The guy is fluent in 2 languages, one being known to be hard to master, create a tool that replace several others, get adopted in months by half the community, welcome 172 contributors on a project that is parsing stuff, a hard problem. Also the doc is good.

As a professional dev, I never get all those right. Never.

So yes, the food is good, and the chef is excellent to get all that stuff right.

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