Why don’t more people live close to friends? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#491

Post by renewiltord » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

rolisz wrote: post #377

balfirevic wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People really like having a 3,000 square foot detached single family home with a 2 car garage. Sure, I'd like that too. But also, how about 3000 square feet apartment with top-notch sound insulation and a balcony, with an underground garage? That sounds like it would have most of the benefits, I would actually prefer it, as I don't care about yards. And with 10-20 story buildings, you could still have quite a large…

I've yet to see an apartment with top-notch sound insulation.

I think they're rare in America - where even new build has poor construction quality. I lived in one in London where I ran into my neighbour one day and she apologized for her children being absolute hellions that weekend and kicking up a ruckus. Well, I hadn't the slightest idea there was anyone next door at the time.

But that was nice construction. Very solid. Good sound insulation.

Lived in America since, and I think local construction just doesn't have that standard to it. It's not that British construction is great. It's not. But there's range. Higher end places are better.

In San Francisco, by comparison, lots of so-called luxury is rubbish.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#492

Post by bbradley406 » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

throwaway22032 wrote: post #358

pantalaimon wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how having to buy all the tools yourself is any less commercial. In a hackspace you often get to access tools that you wouldn’t want to afford yourself.

With restricted access, at controlled hours, in a shared space subject to the whims of others. You're renting them. There are very few tools I can think of at least woodworking wise that I wouldn't "want" to afford myself. Particularly in the context that an urban home costs hundreds of thousands more than a suburban or rural one. Metalworking or something like that, maybe, I wouldn't know.

It depends on the type of woodworking you do, but larger stationary tools like belt-fed drum sanders and 4'x8' capable CNC's take up a large amount of space. While they're extremely handy tools for some projects, it's hard to justify purchasing them unless you're running a decent business.

Cam at Blacktail Studio, who has a successful business and an impressive collection of quality tools, still rents time on the large machines at a different company. I'm not saying makerspaces are perfect, but unless you have a full size shop with 480V power there's always going to be some tools that make more sense to rent.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#493

Post by vladvasiliu » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 5:44 PM UTC

swozey wrote: post #328

rebeccaskinner wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "scared" is the wrong word for it. People in the US tend to have very low levels of contentiousness, and that in turn makes people want to avoid strangers. The most obvious recent example is the push back against masking. In a high population density urban setting, even a few people who aren't adhering to masking raises the general risk level for people substantially. In less population dense areas it doesn't…

> it's nearly impossible to find a moment of quiet. Wild. My experience has been if you live in the city long enough you don't even notice the noise. I've lived downtown for 10+ years in different major cities. There's a building being built directly behind me right now and I hear them all day long and it doesn't even phase me anymore. I'm also on a major drag where people drink all week long and walk around shouting…

It does take its toll, though.

I've been living in a big European city for more than ten years now. I can kinda forget about the noises surrounding me, but I always tend to feel less tense when I leave for the countryside. And when I get back, sure enough, I hear all the random noises again. Upstairs neighbor dragging a chair when sitting at the table. Other neighbor taking a piss. Neighbor from across, blasting his TV or his kid crying for whatever reason.

There is never a moment of respite in the city. You wake up, you got your neighbors doign their thing. On your way to the office / park / groceries, you got the traffic noise. At the office: the AC hum and useless office chat. On the way home, traffic again. Back home? Neighbors are back, too.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#494

Post by ptero » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 5:45 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #485

ptero wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, I am not bashing EU or Europe -- great countries, great history, etc. But I would pretty strongly disagree on "just as easy to move around the EU" part. From what I understand it is super smooth for vacations, but not nearly as frictionless to move around semi-permanently. For example, someone graduating in Norway, moving to Spain for 3 years, then on to Germany would see friction in renting a flat, sen…

For school you may have language barriers, depending what language(s) your children speak. They're entitled to a place at school though. The only barrier to buying a flat or house might be slightly reduced access to loans. I found in Denmark it is easier for a Dane to get a loan for 95% of the house value, but foreigners might only get 80%. EU citizens are somewhere in the middle, depending what the banks think. Lang…

Good to know, thank you! Totally fair on language, I assumed that a person moving to a country will have to learn (or, better, already know) a language.

Do kids from other countries tend to be accepted well in schools? I heard that at least in France schools can be very clique-ish and coming from the outside the kid can face significant hurdles. But I am just parroting what I heard elsewhere.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#495

Post by ethanbond » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 5:45 PM UTC

dev_daftly wrote: post #417

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #14

Access to friends is probably the biggest reason I prefer dense urban environments. There’s something magical about being able to step out your door and be within a 10-20 minute walk of close friends or family. It invites casual get togethers like Saturday afternoon coffee or an after work drink. Living an hour or two apart kills these opportunities. I recall walking through Vienna one weeknight evening and being ama…

It has nothing to do with "car centric" zoning or bans on density. It's poor zoning policies that split sections by use case. Walk through a more "residential" are in Vienna and there are still commercial/restaurants throughout the neighborhood. Do the same in Chicago and besides a few strips of the neighborhood you won't find anything besides residential. The problem is zoning in American cities tend to be more segm…

Well it’s not “nothing to do with” cars or density. The only reason American cities attempted (really, converted) into Euclidean zoning is because cars made it seem easy enough to transit zone to zone to live your daily life.

Walking 8 miles to the grocery store is clearly untenable, so never would’ve happened without widespread cars.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#496

Post by slothtrop » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 5:45 PM UTC

Zach_the_Lizard wrote: post #129

trinovantes wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal theory is that suburban sprawl killed the "third place" in modern society. If you have to drive to a place to socialize (which probably involve drinking), then you're probably not going. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place

My hypothesis is it's connected to the decline in religion, or, more specifically, the mandatory church on Sunday type of religion, no matter what flavor it took. A built in semi-mandatory third place seems pretty nifty as far as building social relationships goes. I'm an atheist but I do remember building bonds this way in those heady pre-smartphone days. It's a shame the baby is stuck in the bathwater.

Suicide rates in men are highest in rural areas, which also have highest Church attendance. Does not track. From experience, going to church doesn't necessarily mean you'll connect with other families. At most I've seen extended family co-mingling at a family member's place or resto after service. Living in the city, there is no shortage of ways to connect with others on the physical plane, should one choose to do so. Though it's hampered by zoning and the convenience of the virtualization of all experiences.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#497

Post by slothtrop » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 5:47 PM UTC

Gigachad wrote: post #198

72f988bf wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like Americans are left with the choice to either risk killing someone/themselves driving home or just not going out. If only there was a service where you can pay money to be driven somewhere... I heard Americans invented these smartphones with apps, Maybe they can even invent an app-based version of that paid ride service!

Yeah if I had to pay $50+ (The actual price uber charges for this trip) to get home, I'd just stay home. Thankfully with a functioning public transport network, it costs me $4

That sounds like quite a distance.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#498

Post by slothtrop » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 5:48 PM UTC

actionablefiber wrote: post #357

72f988bf wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like Americans are left with the choice to either risk killing someone/themselves driving home or just not going out. If only there was a service where you can pay money to be driven somewhere... I heard Americans invented these smartphones with apps, Maybe they can even invent an app-based version of that paid ride service!

If I spend $15 on drinks then Ubering to and from has just at least tripled my cost of going out. If going out with friends costs $20 a head instead of $45, more people will want to do it.

Even with trains, commute isn't free.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#499

Post by jutrewag » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 5:51 PM UTC

bigtex88 wrote: post #412

jutrewag wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s missing the best part. The outdoors and having a huge backyard. You can’t have any hobbies like woodworking, metalworking, gardening/farming, animal husbandry etc. in that setup.

You're basically saying "we need SFH so that rich people can have room for all of their hobbies. Screw anyone else that wants to live in density!" That's not helpful and it's woefully ignorant of people's opinions.

None of those are rich people hobbies.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#500

Post by jjav » Tue, Apr 18, 2023, 5:53 PM UTC

atoav wrote: post #226

vkou wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When your average building is 6 stories tall, and your typical street is 30 feet wide building to building, a quarter mile circle holds a lot of families! Someone walking through a six-story downtown is, by such a measurement, traveling faster than a car traveling at ~90 mph through suburbia. (Of course, a car can't travel that quickly through suburbia.)

How much use you can pull out of that depends on how it is zoned. In European cities it is not uncommon to have grocery stores, pubs, cafes, bakeries and such within walking distance of your home. My next grocery store is 2 minutes by foot. The next 24/7 store where I can get beer 5 minutes, the next park 8 minutes. In the worst flat in these terms I ever had in a city over here was 10 minutes walk to the next grocer…

> In European cities it is not uncommon to have grocery stores, pubs, cafes, bakeries and such within walking distance of your home. My next grocery store is 2 minutes by foot. The next 24/7 store where I can get beer 5 minutes, the next park 8 minutes.

To be fair this exists in many of areas in the US as well.

From my suburban single family home in a small town in California I can easily walk to all those things in a few minutes, including 24x7 supermarket, another nicer supermarket, plenty of restaurants, movies, stores of nearly all kinds, playgrounds, sports fields, etc.