Earlier quoted context omitted.
> LLMs can also write prompts and self introspect to debug. Why should we assume that won't lead to a rabbit hole of misunderstanding or outright hallucination? If it doesn't know what "correct" really is, even infinite levels of supervision and reinforcement might still be toward an incorrect goal.
To which the normal response[0] is: that's just like humans. Of course, it's still bad that humans do it; but despite the scientific method etc., even successful humans often work towards an incorrect goal. [0] I am cultured, you're quoting memes, that AI is just a stochastic parrot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotive_conjugation
An example of LLM prompting for programming
41–50 of 297 posts
Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming
#42For me chatGPT or phind (which is based on chatGPT4, if I understood right) are great documentation tools and also general productivity tools, nothing to say about it. The main issue is that sometimes they really f** it up bad, they make you rethink your knowledge quite deeply (do I remember wrong? did I maybe understand this wrong? is chatGPT wrong?) and this is for me something that can be worse than having to do i…
So I have to decide if it's just a matter of manually converting the 5-10 little things like using `env bash` in the header, etc. Or do I ask it to remember that and proceed to the next layer of the project, and feel like Katamari Coder, which is quite a feeling of what-is-this-fresh-encumbrance at times.
There is a nascent sense that the interface is not even close to where it needs to be to efficiently support that kind of recall for working memory on the coder's end.
I can definitely see a new LLM relativistic-symbolic instruction code & IDE-equivalent (with yet-unseen presentational and let's even say modal editing factors) being extremely useful, which is a bit funny but also that's what those things are good for... Right now I can scroll up through my prompts to supplement my working memory, but that's another place where the whole activity starts to seem very tedious.
(Is the LLM coming for the coders, or are coders coming for the LLM?)
Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming
#43The article stresses to never put anything that may be confidential into the prompt . Yet, chatGpt offers to out-out from using your data for training. For most purposes that seems to be sufficient doesn't it? Or are there reasons not to trust OpenAi on this one?
In short, unless my large employer will likely win in punishing OpenAI should they break a promise, that promise is just aspirational marketing speak.
For data retention and usage, I'd also need a similar contractual agreement to tie the hands of any company that would acquire them in the future.
Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming
#44What I want is a prompt that continuously copies whatever I'm doing, so I can ask to complete the task. For example, say I'm converting all identifiers in a file from lowercase to CamelCase. Then after doing like 3 of them, I can ask the LLM to take over and do the remainder.
Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming
#45But compare that to Copilot: Copilot doesn't help much when you're starting from scratch, and there's nothing for it to work with. But once you have a bit of structure, it starts to make recommendations. Rather than generating large chunks of code, the recommendations are small, chunks of a few lines or maybe even one line at a time. And it's sooooo good at picking up on patterns. As soon as you start something with built-in symmetries, it'll quickly generate all the permutations. It's sort of prompting by pointing.
This is so. much. better. than writing prompt for the chat interface. I'm really excited to see where these kinds of tools lead.
Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
The opposite might be true, and here’s why - 1) by using English as spec, the barrier of entry has gone lower, 2) LLMs can also write prompts and self introspect to debug.
I think English as a spec actually makes the barrier of entry higher, not lower. Code itself is far easier to understand than an English description of the code. To understand an English description of code you already have to have a deeper understanding of what the code is doing. For code itself you can reference the syntax to understand what's going on. The prompt in this case is using very technical language that…
Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming
#47Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
That "upwards" excludes a lot of relevant systems design logic that won't go away though, insofar as it is abstraction ad infinitum in the direction of fewer-relevant-details. What'll happen is, details will continue to be relevant as tastes adjust to the new normal. Like for my work, today, React is enterprise-ready, which is not good for me. It means it will likely dip my projects in unnecessary maintenance costs a…
Fair enough, but don’t we abstract “upwards” all the time? Assembly won’t go away, but do you deal with it?
So, I can't code fast games in a 1984 workplace, currently, being too out of touch with assembly on a given chipset. But I also can't wave my hands at an LLM and expect a modern, fast game of the desired quality to code itself. (Even though a clip art-style result is possible, the requirements are always going to be special details)
The upwards direction example is also interesting because it's foundational to the cognitive functionality of one of the Jungian personality types. But other personality perspectives also apply to coding, which means in part that the directional, metaphorical-abstraction view can effectively be a blind spot if we map it as the preferred view on outcomes.
The most common blind spot for this personality involves questions of relevant details, and their intersection with planning for yet-unknowns. There is a tendency to hand-wave which ends up being similar to prophetic behavior. Jung called this the "voice in the wilderness" noting that it can easily detach from sensibility (rationality) by departing from life details. Kind of interesting stuff.
(Ni-dominant type)
Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming
#49To me, this is a great illustration of why chat is a terrible interface for a coding tool. I've gone down this path as well, learning that you need to have a detailed prompt that establishes a lot of context, and iteratively improve it to generate better code. And yup, generating a task list and working from that is definitely a key strategy for getting GPT to do anything bigger than a few paragraphs. But compare tha…
Re: An example of LLM prompting for programming
#50To me, this is a great illustration of why chat is a terrible interface for a coding tool. I've gone down this path as well, learning that you need to have a detailed prompt that establishes a lot of context, and iteratively improve it to generate better code. And yup, generating a task list and working from that is definitely a key strategy for getting GPT to do anything bigger than a few paragraphs. But compare tha…
Absolutely. People will quickly realize that for coding, the natural language part of LLMs is a distraction. Copilot is much better for someone actually writing code, but unfortunately doesn't get as emphasized due to the narrative surrounding LLMs right now.
I haven't used copilot yet, but I'm using occasionally chatgpt with prompts such as "write a bash/python script take takes these parameters and perform this tasks". Then I iterate if needed, and usually, i can get what i want faster than without using chatgpt. It's not a game changer, but it's a performance boost.
How natural language is a distraction here? and how copilot would do much better for the same task?