Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

531–540 of 587 posts

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#531

Post by [deleted] »

tshaddox wrote: post #351
jclardy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite, as looking at android, where do we see this? All big players are still in the play store, because the average user of those services doesn't want to be bothered going to a website, clicking scary looking buttons to enable third party installs, then manually update their own installed apps. Basically the risk would be someone like TikTok dropping out of the store, but I find that unlikely. Maybe at t…

It has been several years since I gave Android a try, but my experience was that the Android ecosystem (specifically the Google Play Store in the U.S.) was indeed much worse than iOS with apps distributing malware, destroying battery life and performance with background tasks, sending all your contacts off to their server, using push notifications for spam, etc. (To be clear, these things have also been problems on i…

[deleted]

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#532

Post by smoldesu »

HWR_14 wrote: post #514
jclardy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite, as looking at android, where do we see this? All big players are still in the play store, because the average user of those services doesn't want to be bothered going to a website, clicking scary looking buttons to enable third party installs, then manually update their own installed apps. Basically the risk would be someone like TikTok dropping out of the store, but I find that unlikely. Maybe at t…

> looking at android, where do we see this? Google doesn't prevent Meta or TikTok or any other apps from spying on you, as long as they also get to spy on you. So they have no incentive to build a competing store. Apple, on the other hand, limits what apps are allowed to do.

What's preventing Apple from limiting what apps are allowed to do with iOS? It's got the same kernel as MacOS, presumably there's nothing stopping them from using the same venerated isolation technology, right?

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#533

Post by lolinder »

Spivak wrote: post #190
lolinder wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On iOS you can have both. No, you can't. You can have some protections against the most egregious overreaches, but if you're concerned about privacy you shouldn't be on Facebook, ever, on any platform. Aside from that, there's no way Facebook will remove themselves from the app store. Apple isn't going to make sideloading easy enough for the average Facebook user.

No, you can't. And if you could, the protections aren't that good. And if they were, it's not going to happen anyway. And if it does, that's Apple's fault for making it too easy. And even so, you deserve it anyway for using Facebook. I don't think is the argument you think it is. It's basically "nuh-uh" while agreeing with all the arguments in favor no sideloading along the way. Facebook has 2.95 billion MAUs and 73%…

> "just don't use Facebook" is a woefully out of touch take

It's worked for me so far, and we're way past peak Facebook, so I don't see myself needing to use it in the future. Businesses still have phone numbers, and none of my friends or family are active on any Meta platform. I really don't think it's the pillar of society that you seem to think it is.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#534

Post by [deleted] »

willis936 wrote: post #146
lbotos wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To support sideloading do they have to "Relax control" though? I think the fear is "sideloaded apps can do bad things" and my answer is make the OS better and more clearly manage bad things? What are the bad things we imagine a sideloaded app could do? Like it still has to follow the platform APIs right? It would have to ask for perms? Sure, it could have egregious tracking or spam, or hostile ads, but app store apps…

The risk of big companies like Meta requiring users to sideload in order to use their service. To me the answer is obvious: don't use services provided by Meta. They can choose to race to the bottom all they want. I welcome the freedom to use my phone the way I want to. If bad actors choose to misbehave don't blame the medium they're misbehaving on. This line of thinking is similar to negotiating with terrorists.

[deleted]

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#535

Post by yamtaddle »

smoldesu wrote: post #530
yamtaddle wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Income demographics are almost certainly part of it, sure. I expect iOS also makes users feel safer or more comfortable spending money than Android does, and that the average iOS device in the wild is generally more pleasant to use than the average Android device. There could also be age-related demographic factors contributing (that is, Android users may skew older, and older people might spend less on software, and…

> use their devices a lot more, and spend a lot more money through them Dark patterns are the same, by any other name. I left MacOS because the squeeze got too rough, and didn't even consider iOS for daily use since it's file syncing options are a clown show. If Apple has reached this market position through unfair or anticompetitive means, I don't see why or how it would stop regulators from ruling in favor of compe…

I doubt you're right that Apple's more-strongly leveraging dark patterns (... do they?) is the reason iOS users use their devices more, and spend more money on them. There probably are several things that all contribute, but I doubt that particular one ranks in the top-10, assuming the effect even goes that direction at all, and I'd certainly not bet that it does.

I mean, hell, Apple goes out of their way to let you know how much you're using the device and where you're spending (or wasting) your time. And they make managing e.g. subscriptions dead easy. Sure seems counterproductive if the secret of their success is dark patterns tricking us into spending more time on the devices, and spending more money.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#536

Post by roamerz »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #449
roamerz wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm the opposite You already can side load apps. Just buy an Android device. I liken this to people who buy a house near an airport then lobby to get the airport closed because they do not like the noise. I bought into IOS because of the walled garden and without it some app that I would prefer to get through the sanctioned app store will now only be available by side loading.

> I liken this to people who buy a house near an airport then lobby to get the airport closed Well, no, in this case it’s the government going to see the pseudo-monopolist and telling them: "Party is over. There is going to be some competition there from now on." Something I most definitely cheer for.

> There is going to be some competition there from now on.

there already is competition- it’s called Android based phones. This is more akin the government telling Walmart they have to freely give shelf space away to anyone and everyone to sell anything they want.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#537

Post by HWR_14 »

smoldesu wrote: post #532
HWR_14 wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> looking at android, where do we see this? Google doesn't prevent Meta or TikTok or any other apps from spying on you, as long as they also get to spy on you. So they have no incentive to build a competing store. Apple, on the other hand, limits what apps are allowed to do.

What's preventing Apple from limiting what apps are allowed to do with iOS? It's got the same kernel as MacOS, presumably there's nothing stopping them from using the same venerated isolation technology, right?

What's the technology that enforces something like "apps are not allowed to degrade the user for denying permissions, except for features that actually use that permission". Or however Apple wrote the exact rule that prevents apps like FB from saying "give us access to all your contacts or we won't work at all".

As one example.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#538

Post by smoldesu »

HWR_14 wrote: post #537
smoldesu wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's preventing Apple from limiting what apps are allowed to do with iOS? It's got the same kernel as MacOS, presumably there's nothing stopping them from using the same venerated isolation technology, right?

What's the technology that enforces something like "apps are not allowed to degrade the user for denying permissions, except for features that actually use that permission". Or however Apple wrote the exact rule that prevents apps like FB from saying "give us access to all your contacts or we won't work at all". As one example.

Nothing. Just like the technology that enforces something like "apps cannot record from the camera and train it on AI off-device" or the technology enforcing well-written and clear EULAs.

When an app on my phone asks for contacts access to work, I don't use it. The system works as-intended.

Edit:

> So Apple users can use FB on their phones

According to your logic, this is a net-negative. Is Apple trying to help or hurt their users here?

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#539

Post by [deleted] »

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

[deleted]

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#540

Post by clcaev »

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

In response to Facebook or WhatsApp requiring side-loading, one might remark:

> "Just don't use services provided by Meta"

There are insurmountable network effects.

For example, I must keep WhatsApp on my phone if I want to know when child's swim practice is moved/canceled/etc. There is only one swim team in the area. Getting other parents to use Signal ain't happening unless the head coach requires it. The head coach isn't moving to Signal unless parents already use it. Moreover, I'm a coach, so I have more say/power over this than typical.

Of course, I could always force my kid to find another after school activity... or, I can buy an iPhone. At least with an iPhone I can deny Meta access to my Contacts, which it incessantly requests.

This is just one concrete example. There are plenty of organizations land-locked to Facebook for the same reasons; dropping Facebook is tantamount to collapsing the community they built.

For me, checking the monopoly power of Meta by using an iPhone is the least worst option. At least Apple has interests that are partially aligned with mine... as they want me to buy my next mobile device from them.

Post reply on HN