Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine • Hacker News Board

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#611

Post by smackeyacky » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:48 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #580

sho_hn wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another side to that medal: At the moment nobody takes any issue with OpenAI doing filtering and curation in deciding what is part of their training data set, aside from perhaps the anti-bias crowd. "AI neutrality" is not yet a topic. Yet.

Musk was on the air this week talking about how the current AI is biased on the left as he promotes his new AI company

Lets laugh and watch him make the "truth social" of AI, hopefully setting fire to another few billion in the process.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#612

Post by KoftaBob » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:51 PM UTC

Zigurd wrote: post #592

KoftaBob wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing to say that Sundar hasn't led Google to innovate much in his tenure (I agree there), but to say Google hasn't picked any winners since Google Search? - Gmail (largest email service at 1.5B users) - YouTube (by far the biggest video sharing platform) - Android (most used operating system in the world by number of devices) - Google Maps (maps service with the largest userbase) - YouTube TV - The whole Go…

What I mean by "not picking winners" is that Google admits they can't foresee, for example, the acquisition of YouTube turning into a first-tier social network. Just like they could not foresee Orkut and G+ not becoming successful social networks.

Fair, though it seems more like Google just got in their own way with G+ by keeping it invite only for waaaaay too long.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#613

Post by retrocryptid » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:52 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #580

sho_hn wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another side to that medal: At the moment nobody takes any issue with OpenAI doing filtering and curation in deciding what is part of their training data set, aside from perhaps the anti-bias crowd. "AI neutrality" is not yet a topic. Yet.

Musk was on the air this week talking about how the current AI is biased on the left as he promotes his new AI company

It's always nice to hear Mr. Musk has not given up his cannabis habit.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#614

Post by 0xDEF » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:52 PM UTC

bfrog wrote: post #160

Too busy asking people to invert binary trees and not looking for people that know how to make products that make money.

To train and productionize large-scale AI you need people who are good at algorithms and data structures.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#615

Post by rurp » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:53 PM UTC

chankstein38 wrote: post #225

Maybe an unpopular opinion but it feels like Google is near useless anymore. Between results containing outdated or broken links to empty discussions, and ads being their main priority as well as "fuzzy search results" where you can search for one thing and get something completely unrelated because Google decided you also meant to search for something else that is possibly contextually adjacent, I can't really get g…

I find that forums are often some of the most useful results. The posts are typically written by genuine people, many of whom are passionate about the subject matter.

Reliability can be an issue, but the medium at least provides a number of context clues to help. Seeing how individuals write and interact is helpful when judging how much weight to give to their words.

Converting those forum posts into a generic and overly confident interface strips away useful information.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#616

Post by rmbyrro » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:54 PM UTC

robotresearcher wrote: post #242

rmbyrro wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was not at all surprised, to be honest. ChatGPT took over about 90-95% of my what I would previously resort to Google. Since Microsoft was dealing cards at OpenAI, it was just a matter of time...

How do you manage the hallucination problems, or do you not seem to be having them? I’m blown away by the competence of the language model but its willingness to make up facts makes me leary.

GPT4 got a lot better at avoiding hallucinations, in my anecdotal experiences. But it ain't free yet.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#617

Post by retrocryptid » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:55 PM UTC

warner25 wrote: post #323

_fat_santa wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kinda did that with ChromeOS + Google Docs with offline mode. The problem for Google is that while it was a solid investment for MS to persue cloud services to compete with Google, I don't think it would have been a good investment the other way around. Chrome is really the only desktop product that makes sense for Google because it pushes people into their ecosystem online. Creating something like a standalone…

I think we still have a long way to go before people are actually saying "Bing it." Then it's a serious threat.

I have a friend who started saying "let me just bing that" to get people to laugh. Now I've started saying it at work... originally for a laugh, but I find I'm using DDG and Bing more often than Google now. (Alas how I miss AltaVista) So it may be sooner than you think. I mean... my data set is only two people, so maybe it will only be 2 hours sooner than you think.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#618

Post by rmbyrro » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:58 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #346

rmbyrro wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was not at all surprised, to be honest. ChatGPT took over about 90-95% of my what I would previously resort to Google. Since Microsoft was dealing cards at OpenAI, it was just a matter of time...

Can you give examples of the average pre-ChatGPT Google queries you were doing, that ChatGPT can fully handle? Personally — and having not tried ChatGPT for this — I don't think ChatGPT would do well with resolving the kinds of queries I consider Google "good at." To me, the place where Google wins over Bing, DDG, etc. is when I know there must exist some page that uniquely talks about some extremely niche overlap of…

Almost anything related to programming.

Geographical information about a region.

What is the name of a song I have in my mind.

Virtually anything else. I'm studying architecture and read about associations of feelings that cardinal points transmit in a house (north, south, east, west). Like, east is associated with youth because of sunrise. At first it wasn't obvious why, so I asked ChatGPT and it explained everything brilliantly to me.

It takes me an order of magnitude less time to educate myself on ChatGPT comparing to Google.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#619

Post by mrkramer » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #605

mrkramer wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google has poor product strategy overall. The company tends to swing for a lot of home-runs but structures these endeavors poorly. I wouldn't say so; I mean they like to experiment a lot but their product strategy is good in the long term e.g. Google Search, Google Mail, Google Maps, YouTube, Google Chrome, Android etc. If 5 experiments fail and 1 succeeds and brings billions of dollars in revenue that's win in thei…

> "Google Search, Google Mail, Google Maps, YouTube, Google Chrome, Android etc." This is a vindication of Google's M&A department and an indictment of Google's actual product orgs. Out of this list of 6 major Earth-shaking products only 3 came from Google itself. YouTube, Android, and Maps were all acquisitions. And of the homegrown successes the last one of note (Chrome) was released 15 years ago. In other words: G…

>Out of this list of 6 major Earth-shaking products only 3 came from Google itself. YouTube, Android, and Maps were all acquisitions.

They tried to compete with YouTube, it didn't work out but hey we have deep pocket, let's buy them. Successful investment because they bought YouTube for $2bn and last year YouTube generated $30bn in revenue. All done and lifted to sky by Google. Android was pre-emptive acquisition against Microsoft and its mobile Windows OS and its search engine Bing. Today Android is the most used OS in the world and it comes with Google apps preinstalled. Also all done by Google because as far as I understood, they built modern Android OS from the ground up with the Linux kernel ofc. I'm not sure about Maps but I bet there was also some long term vision/strategy there as well. You don't have to innovate all the time if you have strong core business and deep pocket for acquisitions, innovation happens elsewhere.

Also turning acquisitions into successful businesses and money making machines is a difficult task. Not every company can do it and some companies even go bankrupt because of acquisitions that gone bad.

>Take for example the recent and total failure of Stadia - they sunk truckloads of money into developing the underlying technology, which is legitimately impressive. And then they slapped a substandard (let's be honest, less than substandard) go-to-market strategy around it. And after it predictably floundered they walked away from the thing entirely.

Stadia was too early in the game, something like Altavista to Google. Cloud gaming market needs to mature and eventually some successful cloud gaming company will pop up. I also don't think they really cared that much about cloud gaming because let's be honest they jumped on the bandwagon of cloud gaming just like they are jumping now on LLMs hype.

>Or for something more currently topical - Google literally invented LLMs but failed to productize it. They put in the money and failed to get the result where another company did.

Too early to judge. We will see in the next couple of years.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#620

Post by narrator » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 10:01 PM UTC

amluto wrote: post #384

hrunt wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also on a total sidenote, if you told me 5 years ago that Bing would be a serious threat to Google I would have a laughed. If you had told me 3 months ago that Bing would be a serious threat to Google, I still would have laughed. That's how much impact the ChatGPT integration had for Bing -- overnight.

Google has spent the last 10 years ago making Google worse. They achieved this in large part by making the whole Internet worse [0], but a search engine with results of the quality of Google 10 years ago would be a serious competitor. [0] For example, Google used to have a fairly strictly enforced rule that indexable content had to actually be visible to an unauthenticated user. The current crop of sites that have ap…

After 2016, Google went on a crusade to save the universe by stamping out all misinformation and seems to have highly deranked all forums and blogs in favor of mainstream sites. This has made Google unusable for any political or controversial subject matter. This has also made their LLM efforts too cautious as they can't handle the political controversy of an LLM and can't verify that it will never return anything that offends anyone.

It does seem like Larry and Sergei are finally back trying to fix the excessively politically sensitive and overly cautious culture. Larry, having disappeared to Fiji for several years, must have been pretty bored or annoyed with running it.