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iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

techcrunch.com

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Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#281

Post by jmull »

askafriend wrote: post #176
jmull wrote: post #93

Having "side loading" -- also known as regular app installation on non-phone platforms -- hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms or android. No reason to think it will on iOS either.

You’re giving away your age with this comment. Of course it has caused chaos on desktop platforms, especially Windows in the early 2000s, late 90s. Since that era, it’s slowly dug itself out of that hole.

Well, my first computer was a Commodore PET, so I was there before, during, and after. Don't you think iOS with "side loading" would be more like MacOS in 2023 than Windows 98?

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#282

Post by GeekyBear »

rickdeckard wrote: post #257
GeekyBear wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because iAd was designed to preserve user privacy? >A new report on Advertising Age has revealed what advertisers think of Apple's arrogance when it comes to its mobile advertising platform and its tight grip on user data. This attitude towards its ad business turns off advertisers and makes them turn elsewhere, perhaps other avenues such as Google, Yahoo, or Facebook that make life a lot easier for them. "One person…

Exactly this. When Apple tried "Premium Advertising" without sharing any Personas 10 years ago, it failed as it was expensive and didn't allow targeted marketing. In the meantime Meta learnt that they can't allow others to extract their precious userdata and need to protect their position by clustering data into Personas for advertisers to select from. Now Apple reenters the ad-business, using the very same scheme as…

> If people consider Meta/Google's practice as spying

Maintaining shadow profiles on people who aren't even customers and buying user data from third parties isn't spying on people?

Again, it's not the part where you sell ads that is problematic.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#283

Post by schrodinger »

filchermcurr wrote: post #202
FredPret wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want a locked down phone. So does every old person in my life. I'll literally pay extra for a locked-down phone. If you want to side load, buy a phone that allows it, don't force Apple to make one.

You, and the old people in your life, can simply stick to downloading from the official store. This change doesn't suddenly force you to live your life in a way that you're uncomfortable with. If applications suddenly drop out of the App Store (horrendously unlikely) and force you to install them via sideloading, don't do it. It's entirely your prerogative. Plus, I imagine Apple is going to make it quite involved to…

This is still an objectively worse outcome for the person who doesn't want sideloading (fwiw, I agree). There is a non-zero chance they'll lose access to apps they like / need to keep in touch with friends if they stick to their principles and avoid all sideload-only apps.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#284

Post by asadotzler »

throwaway290 wrote: post #196
jmull wrote: post #93

Having "side loading" -- also known as regular app installation on non-phone platforms -- hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms or android. No reason to think it will on iOS either.

Many of us may not realize it here, but desktop is super niche compared to mobile... (edit: if you consider worldwide)

Not really, it's about 50/50 plus or minus 10 depending on which geography of income level you look at.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#285

Post by kitsunesoba »

pwinnski wrote: post #195
josephcsible wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is everyone so worried that Facebook, etc. will pull out of the App Store and require sideloading on iOS just because it'll be possible, when they haven't pulled out of the Play Store or required sideloading on Android where that's already been possible all along?

Because Facebook announced publicly that Apple's privacy policy changes would cost them $10 billion[0], putting them on the record as having strong motive to avoid the App Store. 0. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/02/facebook-says-apple-ios-priv...

Yes, Facebook has plenty of motive. Apple mandating that Facebook give users the ability to opt out of their tracking has made a major dent in their revenue, and Google never implemented an equivalent requirement for the Play Store.

Additionally, iOS users' attention has traditionally been worth more to advertisers than that of their Android using counterparts because they buy so much more.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#286

Post by MagicMoonlight »

IceWreck wrote: post #165
mft_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: what are you basing these 'trust' judgements on, especialy in the case of the Android apps? Open source, or something else?

All applications on fdroid's main repos are a) open source b) built by fdroid's CI from source without depending on external executable binaries.

That's irrelevant when you're never going to read the source code. It's like saying that you can trust a chinese chemical plant to make good chicken because if you pay for a flight over there they'll let you read their recipe. Unless somebody actually puts that effort in to check that out and conduct a huge factory-wide audit in their own time for free then you are getting zero benefit from that.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#287

Post by kyriakos »

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

Apple (and Google) blocks all sorts of apps from their stores that even though legal in nature are not allowed for some arbitrary reason that helps their bottomline. E.g. things like gambling, crypto, adult etc are all blocked. On Android you have the choice to side load them on iOS you can't. For this reason alone allowing sideloading will be a generally good thing.

For the average user there will be zero impact and for the power users who wants to still to Apple's guidelines no one is forcing them to install anything they don't want to. If its any similar to Android it will take quite a few clicks to allow the installation which deters the average user from installing unwanted stuff.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#288

Post by wkat4242 »

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

They're got going to have such mainstream apps only available by sideloading. Not enough people do it. See how few people actually use this on Android. It's way too complex and scary for Joe Soap and Facebook won't want to lose all of them.

The only big player I can imagine doing this is TikTok if they really get banned, they'll still lose a ton of users though.

It's a great thing for the ecosystem because at least those who want to sideload can do it.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#289

Post by kitsunesoba »

josephcsible wrote: post #271
pwinnski wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Facebook announced publicly that Apple's privacy policy changes would cost them $10 billion[0], putting them on the record as having strong motive to avoid the App Store. 0. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/02/facebook-says-apple-ios-priv...

Isn't that about a technical feature of iOS that won't be bypassed just by installing an app from outside the App Store?

App Tracking Transparency is more App Store policy than technical feature, and even if Apple were stonewalling third party dev access by technical means, outside of the App Store there's nothing to stop Facebook from using a rotating set of holes to pull data through, turning the situation into an arms race which will only result in iOS being locked down progressively further, despite having sideloading.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#290

Post by sixstringtheory »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #55
jamil7 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will still run in a sandbox, that's how iOS works. It just will bypass app store review, meaning certain rules won't be enforced.

Careful! 7. The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via the operating system or virtual assistant listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9) as are available to services or hardware provided by the gatek…

None of that negates what GP said. Apps have the ability to interoperate, but they still have to build that functionality. Apps can’t just take over other apps or their data at unawares.
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