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Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

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Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#341

Google constant failure astonish me. How a company with so much money, so many wonderful engineers can't produce a source of income other than the search engine? I kept reading news about Google's AI programs, how the hell was Microsoft with OpenAI that came up with the biggest hit in AI? Also, how does Google want people to use their new services if they keep closing them down after their "failure" (a.k.a Google com…

What makes them "wonderful engineers"? The vast majority are very smart, and obviously can code 'leet code like no tomorrow, but that doesn't make them wonderful. Remember when the person who created homebrew couldn't get a job at google. That person created software used by a lot of people. He saw something that "needed fixing" and he fixed it. He fixed it so well a bunch of other people started using his fix. That'…

Eh. Yes and no.

Homebrew may be a wonderful product, but that doesn't make the creator a wonderful engineer. Useful things can be poorly created. And this is not to shit on either Homebrew or Max Howell. I personally do not know if Howell is a wonderful engineer or not. He's obviously competent enough to ship working software. That's not nothing.

And everyone has an idea on how to improve everything. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. And even when we're right, it doesn't make us right all the time. You can't really select for "the ability to create things that people want to use". No one's track record is flawless. It's very nearly a crapshoot.

Basically, you're putting Howell on a pedestal, in much the same manner you're accusing others of doing so with Google employees.

I think traveler01 does have a valid question. Essentially, with all of their engineers, why is Google so limited? And I don't think it's a matter of not being able to ship stuff that people use. Google Drive, GMail, etc. They just don't seem to be able to monetize beyond ads. Maybe their fault isn't in pure engineering.

And to be fair to the hiring process at Google at the time he interviewed, Google was an "all yes" kind of place. If anyone had any sort of hesitation, that could cause a candidate to be rejected. Their philosophy was that it was better to reject a good candidate than hire a bad one. So all he had to do was have one off hour, and that could have killed his entire interview. I personally don't think being rejected by Google's hiring committee is a mark against anyone. To get even that far requires a certain level of skill and/or talent.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#342
post #71
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

google still owns android

More precisely, Google makes AOSP, which is the basis for a licensed version of Android that includes a number of proprietary apps. Two things are not likely to happen: 1. Samsung will not give up on licensing Google proprietary package of apps. 2. Google will not yank Samsung's license. Google will absolutely tighten the screws on their future contracts to discourage these deals, as well as sweeping out crappy "cust…

> as well as sweeping out crappy "customizations."

huh? Samsung OneUI features have been making their way into mainstream AOSP...particularly the tablet-focused stuff

there is no way Google will ever try to "strong arm" Samsung...Samsung is the Android market, the Pixel line is a rounding error and in no way a competitive threat

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#343

The problem with Google is very simple: they have become entirely incapable of creating new products (specifically: stuff that people actually want). Most of the tech. that underpins OpenAI's stuff has been invented at Google, and quite a long time ago. They've been sitting on it, not doing anything with it, and even when their most direct competitor comes to take a huge pound of flesh out using stuff they created, a…

But Microsoft can create new products?

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be true in concept, but I don't think it's true in reality. When people search for something online, they want the first result to be whatever they had in mind. If I search for Python, I want the homepage for the programming language. When somebody else searches for Python, they might be looking to learn about the animal. You could argue that we should just ask for exactly what we want, but that puts more…

People are different, I get it, but I don't want a search engine that tries to second guess me all the time. If I'm a programmer and I'm interested in the actual animal, I don't want to have to fight against the product. I'd much rather use my knowledge to craft my queries intelligently so that I get exactly what I want. But then when it comes to technology, I'm a bit of a control freak.

Here's another example taken from my experience a few years ago. I once googled "pro tour results" and was, as expected, presented with an info box about the results of the recent Pro Tour in Magic: The Gathering.

Some months later I was visiting family for a few weeks and wrote the same query on a family-member's PC. It gave me something about golf which I couldn't care less about. But I got the right results on my phone. I'm sure if I added "golf" to my query on the phone it would have given me info about that tournament instead. While it disturbs me how much I'm being tracked, I'm still happy with the practicality of the implied context being aligned with my interests.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#345
post #3

What's Sundar's goal for Google? They seem to be aimless since he took the helm.

It's werid to me that no one has made the self-evident comparison: Sundar is like Steve Ballmer was for Microsoft.

Coming in right after the founders and trying to raise the moats of the exisiting products instead of creating new moats. Google Stadia is a similar failure to Ballmer's late Windows Live initiatives.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#346
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also on a total sidenote, if you told me 5 years ago that Bing would be a serious threat to Google I would have a laughed. If you had told me 3 months ago that Bing would be a serious threat to Google, I still would have laughed. That's how much impact the ChatGPT integration had for Bing -- overnight.

I was not at all surprised, to be honest. ChatGPT took over about 90-95% of my what I would previously resort to Google. Since Microsoft was dealing cards at OpenAI, it was just a matter of time...

Can you give examples of the average pre-ChatGPT Google queries you were doing, that ChatGPT can fully handle?

Personally — and having not tried ChatGPT for this — I don't think ChatGPT would do well with resolving the kinds of queries I consider Google "good at."

To me, the place where Google wins over Bing, DDG, etc. is when I know there must exist some page that uniquely talks about some extremely niche overlap of concepts; but I don't know any specific "natural key" keywords to refer to the that overlapped-set-of-concepts, and instead only have a "cloud of highly-correlated keywords for the individual concepts involved" to throw into the search box.

For example, if I'm trying to conjure from the aether a discussion people are having about an issue I'm facing with some buggy behavior in an API — where that buggy behavior doesn't spit out any distinctive error message to use in the search.

I could see ChatGPT being good at a limited version of this problem, where I could give it e.g. several definitions of a word (= correlated keywords), and it could tell me the word that fits those definitions.

But the full version of the problem — pointing you at (or regurgitating) the one unique conversation that most highly correlates with your keyword cloud — essentially implies an Internet-scale "language model": one where there are unique vertices for every unique URL. Which, if you think about it, is what a traditional search engine's index is: a very dumb, but very large correlational language model, where that "dumbness" is a valuable constraint meaning that queries are able to be run map-reduced across many nodes.

Is there something I'm missing here, that makes Bing+ChatGPT better at these types of queries than Google is?

Or are the advantages ChatGPT is bringing to the table here, in areas that have nothing to do with making search engines better at the things they're already "the best tool for the job" at, and instead are in solving problems that could be solved any number of other ways (e.g. querying a search assistant such as Siri/Alexa; or pulling up an encyclopedia article or textbook relevant to the subject and just reading it) such that a search engine wouldn't necessarily be the first tool you'd search for?

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of Android is licensed under the Apache 2.0 license. So while the word "owns" is true in a technical legal sense, there is nothing to prevent anyone from forking it and doing their own thing. Unlike with GPL code, they don't even need to license their changes under the same license as long as they abide the terms with respects to the original. Personally I use GrapheneOS in order to "de-Google" without switching…

> Personally I use GrapheneOS in order to "de-Google" without switching to the Apple ecosystem. No Google Play (you can install it but I choose not to), FOSS apps only. This is only valid for power users. Normal users would probably never accept a phone without Google Play Services running on it, with Amazon's devices being the exception (and don't ask me why, because I don't get it.)

> Amazon's devices being the exception (and don't ask me why, because I don't get it.)

IMO, narrow use cases and cheapness.

My impression is people buy a Fire Tablet because:

* They want to read/browse the web/use a few basic social media apps

* They want something for their kid

Fire Tablets are never a primary device, so it's okay to have trade-offs.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#348
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They surely do, its reason to fame is being the best distribution supporting OEM devices without religion regarding open source drivers.

They're using a package manager that a lot of people are comfortable with, they give away their packages without subscriptions and they work with some OEMs. But in reality, the hardware support is in the kernel, so any distro with a more up2date kernel would fare at least as good. As for the software Canonical produces, I'm not great friends with anything. Snap is crap, Netplan is just a renderer to systemd-networkd…

Nope in what concerns proprietary drivers and FOSS drama.

There is a reason why Canonical was the first option when Microsoft introduced WSL.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was not at all surprised, to be honest. ChatGPT took over about 90-95% of my what I would previously resort to Google. Since Microsoft was dealing cards at OpenAI, it was just a matter of time...

How do you manage the hallucination problems, or do you not seem to be having them? I’m blown away by the competence of the language model but its willingness to make up facts makes me leary.

What I've found is that until you see it really hallucinate like mad on a subject you know well you don't realize how crazy it can be.

Especially when I talk to it about fiction and ask questions about - for example - a specific story and you see it invent whole quotes and characters and so on...it is a masterful bullshitter.

Re: Samsung considers moving to Bing as default search engine

#350
Love to see a title like this. Would love to be a fly inside the Google execs offices right now. I do wonder if they are confused, why are their factory workers, i.e. leet code solvers not able to innovate?

I find this hilarious and positively validating. Building a tech product is not about being able to memorise an algorithm or knowing how to sort an array in the fastest way possible. They are stuck in the past.

You will not ask a today's Software Engineer how does a bootloader function, yet the big tech companies keep asking irrelevant questions blown by time and progress.

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