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'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

joannejacobs.com

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Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#381

Post by WillAdams »

_kna2 wrote: post #329
foolfoolz wrote: post #14

math is just the beginning of these backwards policies. public schools in california have been removing advanced classes in the name of “equity” for years. the racial enrollment in those classes did not reflect the racial enrollment of the school. the result? parents moving kids to private school. at the school nearest me they kindergarten enrollment is dropping. they are likely going to only have a a single class in…

Schools - and this is a problem in the UK as well - are incentivised to optimise for evenly distributed mediocrity, instead of allowing people to reach their potential. Now, I'm not talking about race here - this is from my perspective in the UK. Ultimately we need to split the education system up. Putting the next Einstein and a violent, disinterested drug dealer in the same school, let alone the same class, is a re…

>Schools - and this is a problem in the UK as well - are incentivised to optimise for evenly distributed mediocrity, instead of allowing people to reach their potential.

and that is the crux of the problem --- the best school would be one which would help students explore what they are interested, find what best suits them, and then best prepare them to be successful at that.

I disagree w/ separation though --- this really should be achievable in a single building/system.

One of the best programs ever for fostering educational success was the one California had where land-grant colleges were required to accept the student with the highest GPA from each high school who applied and provide a full scholarship (so if the top 3 students got a better deal, then the student w/ the 4th highest GPA was guaranteed to be able to apply to a land-grant college and be accepted, and get full tuition and room and board). This was dismantled after college students began protesting the Vietnam War and draft.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#382

Post by WillAdams »

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #71
tiedieconderoga wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's why people don't like it. The essay's thesis is that math is an unusually useful art form that we typically teach by diktat. Students are asked to memorize formulas, but they would learn more effectively (and have more fun) if teachers could work closely with them to derive and understand the solutions. Or better yet, encourage and guide them to find their own interesting formulas and patterns.

We should teach engineering classes and students would learn math to solve engineering problems. That solves the “when are we going to use this?” problem.

I've been learning a lot about geometry to apply to using my CNC:

https://willadams.gitbook.io/design-into-3d/2d-drawing#geome...

I would highly recommend anyone w/ a child taking geometry to get a 3D printer and:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58059196-make

(I am currently working through the matching book on Calculus)

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#383

Post by ChoGGi »

The district had bragged that algebra failure rates had dropped. Families for San Francisco, a parent group, analyzed the data: Failure rates dropped after the district dropped the end-of-course exam.

It's easy to succeed when you can't fail.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#384

Post by firstlink »

brianwawok wrote: post #374
pfannkuchen wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found the actual impact of AP credits disappointing. I ended up with no gen ed classes and started off in sophomore classes for math and physics. AP doesn’t count towards college GPA, and it turns out that others ended up with GPA padding that I missed out on. Still turned out fine overall, the GPA padding thing just didn’t occur to me in high school and no one pointed it out.

Who do you tell your GPA to? I stopped listing GPA after my first job. When I get a resume from someone that went to college 10 years ago and lists a 3.245 GPA, I laugh.

Yeah but what about when their GPA is 3.254? Bet you're not laughing then! /s

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#385

Post by firstlink »

vnchr wrote: post #83
TimTheTinker wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the name of equity That's the problem. We're dealing with the critical theory definition of equity, which they define as the intentional redistribution of opportunity and resources along identity group lines to correct for present and historical injustices, as well as opportunities those groups have already had. Critical theory and social justice adopts a distorted view of reality. Leave it to a school in San Fr…

Inequality is increased because those without resources aren’t receiving any new benefits and those with resources use those resources to compensate for the failure of the system to provide an education optimal path. It’s worse outcomes for both, except some people can shield themselves from the fallout. What new kind of self-inflicted damage will be required to realize the detrimental failure of this world view?

Well you see we just haven't tried real socialism yet. The wealthy should not be allowed to give any kind of private education including tutors to their kids. And they shouldn't be allowed to interact with their kids at all because that too causes inequity. State boarding schools all around. Then we will achieve a classless society.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#386

Post by aklemm »

mdorazio wrote: post #127
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

Argh this grinds my gears. It’s the education SYSTEM that is wrong. We are working with a 150 year old way of educating kids that does not apply to our culture today. Kids aren’t going to work on the farm or in a factory. They need the math!!! For courses like algebra, etc. kids need support at home from parents. When that support isn’t available (for whatever reason), don’t water down the content for goodness sake.…

> They need the math!!! Serious question: for what? Basic algebra, yes. And basic geometry is handy in many jobs as well. But beyond that?

Everybody needs a certain base of math to a certain age so that we can find the students that want to go on with math and so that they are able to. Society needs that.

Along the way, everybody has a chance to get a feel for math in the world, which I would say is on par with a certain base in the humanities; we should strive for every citizen to have it, even if it’s not strictly needed for survival in the job market.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#387

Post by firstlink »

sigstoat wrote: post #264
sp332 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that if it’s important to rich parents, they will grudgingly fund education for everyone. But as long as they have these outlets where they can just educate their own kids and leave everyone else behind, they will.

> I think the idea is that if it’s important to rich parents, they will grudgingly fund education for everyone. it doesn't cost more for a teacher to open up an algebra book and teach from that instead of from the pre-algebra book. unless there are scheduling difficulties which somehow prevent one classroom's worth of students from being crammed into the same room in the same slot, the imagined lack of money isn't go…

> one math class is an expensive as another to teach

On the contrary, I'm sure that a teacher who understands algebra well enough to teach it competently costs much more than the other kind, on account of being so rare.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#388

Post by brianwawok »

firstlink wrote: post #384
brianwawok wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you tell your GPA to? I stopped listing GPA after my first job. When I get a resume from someone that went to college 10 years ago and lists a 3.245 GPA, I laugh.

Yeah but what about when their GPA is 3.254? Bet you're not laughing then! /s

Lol. I even had someone with like 8 years of work experience put a 2.5 GPA on their resume.

I would have done a phone screen.. but with that low of a GPA, and the judgement to put it on your resume? Pass.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#389

Post by kahirsch »

SideQuark wrote: post #327
staunton wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is what we will get 10x with free college That seems quite different. First, lots of countries have free higher education and seem to do just fine. Second, lowering price of entry is orthogonal to lowering expected performance. Your argument does not apply.

Every free college country sends less of their people through college than the US. Is that the outcome we want? Fewer educated?

> Every free college country sends less of their people through college than the US.

That used to be true.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#390

Post by smaudet »

mlrtime wrote: post #354
Cymrukicks wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer your question first you make sure that child has the same education resources available that the professors child does throughout all aspects of their life. You also make the professors available to children from those inner city areas widening the networking effects that the children of the professor gets. they won't be as good but you open them up. Improving objective outcomes is some Krypton level shit,…

"throughout all aspects of their life". You meant at t0, the movement the baby is born to a parent optimizes education vs a baby that is born to a parent that cares much less. Impossible for government to "make sure" this happens.

That is where the problem lies, yes, the inequality is as they "systemic", rooted in practical reality.

There is no real way to perfect this - but if an effort is made a good result can be achieved nonetheless. The fallacy with the professor example is that they will have the time to teach their child, and that their child must necessarily be receptive to their limited tuition.

Unless they quit their job, and thus are no longer professors, a majority of their time will be spent teaching multiple students, and while one on one coaching has it's merits there is also value in classroom peer experiences. If an effort is made to provide tutoring to all the kids, it may even be in the parents interest not to provide tutoring services, if the quality is good, because that takes away from their own time spent being able to provide the most effective teaching experience they can offer.

We can't build perfect bridges, but we can sure as hell mandate they are good enough, it's some nonsense to say we shouldn't try because we can't get it perfect.

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