'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#141

Post by CydeWeys » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:19 AM UTC

kfajdsl wrote: post #116

jeffbee wrote: post #36

It's interesting how path-dependency makes these things seem like controversial reforms, while nearby districts have always done it this way. In Berkeley, for example, there isn't any course called "Algebra I" or II. Through 8th grade there is just math, with no differentiation. Then for 9th grade you can test into an advanced track, and people take either Math 1/2/3 or Advanced Math 1/2/3. In senior year any of thes…

I took AP Calculus BC junior year and there were some sophomores in my class - is there no accelerated path?

I don't specifically know about Berkeley, but my experience has been there's always an accelerated track for some students whose parents push the school system to let them into the right classes. At some point in middle school I was bussed to a local high school along with some of my peers to take advanced math not offered in middle school, and in high school all of my math classes were with people 1-2 years older than me.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#142

Post by ketralnis » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:20 AM UTC

serf wrote: post #55

foolfoolz wrote: post #14

math is just the beginning of these backwards policies. public schools in california have been removing advanced classes in the name of “equity” for years. the racial enrollment in those classes did not reflect the racial enrollment of the school. the result? parents moving kids to private school. at the school nearest me they kindergarten enrollment is dropping. they are likely going to only have a a single class in…

>the result? parents moving kids to private school. as someone who went through the public school system in California during a time where classroom sizes hovered between 35-50 students under a single teacher, I have a hard time thinking that won't bring at least some benefits to those that aren't being put into private schools. Don't get me wrong, as a delinquent/mischievous/criminal youth I loved it; the dating poo…

Probably not as much benefit as you'd think. The state funding that student would have been bringing goes with the student to the private school so the student/teacher ratio stays about the same

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#143

Post by CydeWeys » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:20 AM UTC

gumby wrote: post #84

thaumasiotes wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So anyway the point is Berkeley has always done math the "reform" way and its math outcomes are much better in every respect. If Berkeley's system prevents everyone from taking calculus before 12th grade, it's not getting even halfway decent results. If they're better than the results in San Francisco, all you can learn from that is that Berkeley has extreme problems with student quality, and quality is even lower…

> If Berkeley's system prevents everyone from taking calculus before 12th grade High school in the US ends at 12th grade -- how do they teach physics without calculus?

I took physics in 9th grade along with everyone else in my program, and it didn't include calculus.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#144

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:21 AM UTC

g9yuayon wrote: post #24

> "Families with resources turn to fee-required online algebra 1 courses in eighth grade, outside the public school system, or enroll their kids in private schools," Isn't this obvious result? The Russian School of Mathematics could manage to teach 10-year old kids basic algebra. And there's AOPS, there's Think Academy, and slew of local tutoring schools who can teach kids relatively advanced maths. Let alone many pr…

[deleted]

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#145

Post by ams92 » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:22 AM UTC

thr0waway001 wrote: post #121

> San Francisco Unified decided in 2015 to delay algebra till ninth grade and place low, average and high achievers in the same classes. Ugh, I couldn't imagine being a high achieving student and having to be lumped in with people who don't give a shit about their education.

It’s all just a race to the bottom in the name of “equality”. Everyone with the means to do so is moving out of SF because of the terrible schools, and the kids suffering the most as a result are from poorer families.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#146

Post by testfoobar » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:22 AM UTC

jerojero wrote: post #31

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

Argh this grinds my gears. It’s the education SYSTEM that is wrong. We are working with a 150 year old way of educating kids that does not apply to our culture today. Kids aren’t going to work on the farm or in a factory. They need the math!!! For courses like algebra, etc. kids need support at home from parents. When that support isn’t available (for whatever reason), don’t water down the content for goodness sake.…

I mostly agree with you, except on one aspect. We cannot rely on support from parents, the system we design needs to be thought of with parents out of the equation because in the case of the most vulnerable of kids they will not have parents that can help them. Special tutoring needs to be a part of the system, outsourcing the work will make things cheaper but it will complicate things for those struggling. Kids in n…

Khan Academy videos continue to be exceptional. They are free. School districts offer free laptops. Some offer free 5G wifi access points as well.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#147

Post by tick_tock_tick » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:22 AM UTC

Mike_12345 wrote: post #76

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #15

Turns out math isn’t actually white supremacy. To the surprise of absolutely no one.

Math is Arabic and Islamic supremacy. "The word algebra comes from the Arabic: الجبر, romanized: al-jabr, lit. 'reunion of broken parts,[1] bonesetting[2]' from the title of the early 9th century book ʿIlm al-jabr wa l-muqābala "The Science of Restoring and Balancing" by the Persian mathematician and astronomer al-Khwarizmi."

I mean the word we use for it just happens to be Arabic. If anything it's more Indian and Hindu we, the west that is, just happen to get most of our exposure to it via the people who lived between us and them.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#148

Post by reducesuffering » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:23 AM UTC

ChancyChance wrote: post #99

Kids take algebra in 8th grade? When the heck did this start? I didn't take it until first year highschool (using US terms).

At least as of 15 years ago in a middling California public school.

7th grade (age 12/13): Pre-Algebra

8th grade: Algebra

9th grade: Geometry

10th grade: Algebra 2 / Trigonometry

11th grade: Pre-Calculus

12th grade: Calculus 1

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#149

Post by testfoobar » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:24 AM UTC

OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #75

Fascinating article. Unclear if this stops the Boaler initiative, though. Considering the tussle between her and Jelani Nelson of Berkeley [1], I wonder what actions she'll take against her own colleagues. [1] https://www.dailycal.org/2022/04/12/uc-berkeley-stanford-pro...

This is an exceptional article on the effect that Jo Boaler has had on California's math education: https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-divider

It mentions Prof. Nelson's criticism among others.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#150

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 2:25 AM UTC

ketralnis wrote: post #142

serf wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the result? parents moving kids to private school. as someone who went through the public school system in California during a time where classroom sizes hovered between 35-50 students under a single teacher, I have a hard time thinking that won't bring at least some benefits to those that aren't being put into private schools. Don't get me wrong, as a delinquent/mischievous/criminal youth I loved it; the dating poo…

Probably not as much benefit as you'd think. The state funding that student would have been bringing goes with the student to the private school so the student/teacher ratio stays about the same

> The state funding that student would have been bringing goes with the student to the private school

No, it doesn’t.

There was a proposed 2022 ballot initiative that would have done that with about 2/3 of the state funding, but it got less than 1/3 of the signatures required to be placed on the ballot.