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Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#221

Post by cudgy »

nindalf wrote: post #85

The answer is obvious - most people don’t want to do this. They want to text or call a friend, look up the weather or sports, stream some entertainment or read the news. They’re experts in their own domains and don’t have the time or inclination to learn programming. There’s some heavy condescension in this thread, claiming that not programming “keeps people stupid”. As if creating can only happen in an IDE and not i…

“you have to be living under a literal rock if you’ve missed the potential impact of LLMs”

Isn’t this statement condescending, which you criticize the article of doing?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#222

Post by literallyroy »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #135
nindalf wrote: post #85

The answer is obvious - most people don’t want to do this. They want to text or call a friend, look up the weather or sports, stream some entertainment or read the news. They’re experts in their own domains and don’t have the time or inclination to learn programming. There’s some heavy condescension in this thread, claiming that not programming “keeps people stupid”. As if creating can only happen in an IDE and not i…

I think your obvious answer is wrong. The fact is that modern smartphones are walled gardens with very large, powerful gatekeepers who want to protect their duopoly. The original impetus behind locking down the operating systems on smartphones was security but it evolved into a perfect way to ensure control over their market. There are no generic PC clones in the cellphone market, only small hobbyist or niche product…

Just to clarify when you say:

> I think your obvious answer is wrong

You are saying this is wrong:

> The answer is obvious - most people don’t want to do this.

You are saying you believe the majority of people *do* want to learn to program?

I’m my eyes the BASIC prompts at startup we’re there because that’s how you had to interact with computers at the time. Seems like the vast majority of people want to use their phones not program them.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#223

Post by ungamedplayer »

melagonster wrote: post #198
lozenge wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The speed you can input data into a smartphone just isn't conducive to creating anything. It isn't a grand conspiracy. On my computer I've never created something with the same screen size as the intended viewer.

I saw some gen-Z input on their cellphone, they told me it is faster than keyboard. in another way, it is possible to connect a keyboard to cellphone.

This is probably true for non touch typing, almost absolutely incorrect for a competent touch typist who regularly uses words outside of the default common English suggestions provided by the keyboard.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#224

Post by ungamedplayer »

Sharlin wrote: post #96
nindalf wrote: post #85

The answer is obvious - most people don’t want to do this. They want to text or call a friend, look up the weather or sports, stream some entertainment or read the news. They’re experts in their own domains and don’t have the time or inclination to learn programming. There’s some heavy condescension in this thread, claiming that not programming “keeps people stupid”. As if creating can only happen in an IDE and not i…

> and not in ProCreate or iMovie. Or – gasp – Instagram or TikTok! — I just listened to a radio show where they talked about how easy it is to create (rap music and music videos in this case) these days, as all you need is your phone rather than expensive devices and desktop applications.

Phone made rap sounds like hot garbage though.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#225

Post by safety1st »

antifa wrote: post #218
gilmore606 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Authoritarian governments don't give their subjects a good civic education This seems to have been untrue in the USSR, and it seems currently untrue in China, the first two big authoritarian governments that came to my mind. Also "because" is doing the heavy lifting in your sentence, I do wonder how you arrived at that causality.

In those two counties, sometimes the term "authoritarian" just means the rich aren't free to endlessly exploit the poor. In US politics, property rights are far more important than human rights, so while it might still be accurate to call all three countries authoritarian, the rhetoric just gets confusing/ambiguous and is mostly just propaganda anyways. We love overstating how much democracy we have and understating…

The governments of the two authoritarian countries under discussion were responsible for two of the largest mass murders in history.

Your apologies for some of the greatest criminals in history not withstanding, my original comment referred to the concept of a good civic education. There was some debate in the responses about what that constitutes. I think it includes a comparative analysis of various systems of government and how people under those systems fare. What we can say about the systems in the USSR and China is that as a matter of undisputed fact, people living under those systems are poorer and more likely to be subject to arbitrary detention or execution than the typical citizens of the world's democratic countries. A good civic education will teach that because it is a fact. A bad civic education will use propaganda to conceal facts like those.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#226

Post by antifa »

safety1st wrote: post #225
antifa wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In those two counties, sometimes the term "authoritarian" just means the rich aren't free to endlessly exploit the poor. In US politics, property rights are far more important than human rights, so while it might still be accurate to call all three countries authoritarian, the rhetoric just gets confusing/ambiguous and is mostly just propaganda anyways. We love overstating how much democracy we have and understating…

The governments of the two authoritarian countries under discussion were responsible for two of the largest mass murders in history. Your apologies for some of the greatest criminals in history not withstanding, my original comment referred to the concept of a good civic education. There was some debate in the responses about what that constitutes. I think it includes a comparative analysis of various systems of gove…

This reply is a perfect example of the "overstate/understate" propoganda in action. Really? The United States didn't commit mass murder? Read a history book.

Can you imagine school children in China, one of them asks in a political science class "What's wrong with US democracy?" and nobody can give them an answer without first mentioning the genocide of native americans, the mass graves in latin american, the contras, Iraq.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#227

Post by sadpolishdev »

Because smartphones give access to lot of distractions and content out of the box, and when you got your Atari XE or similar machine, you had 10 floppies with games and INTRODUCTION to basic - at some point you'd start writing it from pure boredom. Now you can infinitely scroll social media and never had a glimpse of thought about doing something by yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#228

Post by safety1st »

antifa wrote: post #226
safety1st wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The governments of the two authoritarian countries under discussion were responsible for two of the largest mass murders in history. Your apologies for some of the greatest criminals in history not withstanding, my original comment referred to the concept of a good civic education. There was some debate in the responses about what that constitutes. I think it includes a comparative analysis of various systems of gove…

This reply is a perfect example of the "overstate/understate" propoganda in action. Really? The United States didn't commit mass murder? Read a history book. Can you imagine school children in China, one of them asks in a political science class "What's wrong with US democracy?" and nobody can give them an answer without first mentioning the genocide of native americans, the mass graves in latin american, the contras…

There really is no comparison unless your goal is to make China look good by distorting the facts. The highest estimate I've seen for deaths on the Trail of Tears is 15K. Iraq was perhaps 100K-200K.

The Chinese killed some 75,000,000 people (mostly their own) in the 20th century.

Plus, why did you make this about the US? Have you forgotten that other democracies exist? I was talking about the human rights track records of democracies in general versus authoritarian governments in general. Democracies consistently have better records. You're the one who decided to cherry pick one of the worse democracies (and still failed to demonstrate that it is as bad as one of the worst authoritarian states).

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#229

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

Smartphones allow such things. In fact, I wrote an app with an interpreter, ide, debugger and even its own app store, that was intended to build small programs (a few lines of js can do wonders). There wasn't a word of discouragement from Google. But very few people used it. I guess too much trouble.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#230

Post by DerekL »

herbst wrote: post #216

When Smartphones came out I couldn't think of anything else than creating apps for it. Naturally I learned Java and android as soon as I could. I published my first app soon after. Well it didn't work so well on all devices. It worked on all my test Devices so I was stuck and the app was removed from the store. Years later I released a game. It was taken offline several times before I didn't care anymore. Half of the…

Many Android developers now use Kotlin instead of Java.
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