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Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

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Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#111

Post by andrei_says_ »

trilbyglens wrote: post #72
speedgoose wrote: post #48

I’m not a lawyer, but I have a vague idea about my rights and firing people to hire them as contractors instead is illegal in both jurisdictions I know, France and Norway. Firing people to hire contractors instead is risky because you need a reason to fire people. The reason could be economical, but one could easily argue in court that if the company is hiring contractors instead, well, it was not the real reason. Th…

Employees have basically no rights at all in the US. We started the labor movement, and have completely given up all rights over the last 70 years. It's a shame really.

In addition to this there are active measures to make unions completely powerless.

This however does not mean that unions are powerless.

I highly recommend Adam Conover’s interview with Jane McAlevey

https://youtu.be/nA2AMxRz0iA

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#112

Post by Der_Einzige »

ttymck wrote: post #102
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hows that working out for Portugal‘s economy?

It would be very surprising if you believe labor protections are the root cause of Portugal's economic woes. Can you share how you drew that conclusion?

In general, Europeans would prefer to not work and strongly support social safety nets. They "work to live" while we "live to work" with our protestant work ethic.

It's telling that America just gets richer and more powerful and Europe stagnates more and more.

Reap what you sow europoors. America shows you the power of the Protestant work ethic.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#113

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #110
ttymck wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be very surprising if you believe labor protections are the root cause of Portugal's economic woes. Can you share how you drew that conclusion?

Not the person you’re replying to but I’m the US anti-union propaganda’s talking points do include “bad for the economy”. Basically anything that hurts the top 0.1% is presented as bad for the economy. Which probably has a lot to do with how the economy is measured.

I wonder if they ever figure out how to stop the emigration from the capitalist hell-hole that is the US to the socialist paradise of Cuba (or pick any South American country if you prefer, most of them are socialist).

Its a real problem!

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#114

Post by YourDadVPN »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #112
ttymck wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be very surprising if you believe labor protections are the root cause of Portugal's economic woes. Can you share how you drew that conclusion?

In general, Europeans would prefer to not work and strongly support social safety nets. They "work to live" while we "live to work" with our protestant work ethic. It's telling that America just gets richer and more powerful and Europe stagnates more and more. Reap what you sow europoors. America shows you the power of the Protestant work ethic.

I hope this is a joke. It made me laugh, anyway.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#115

Post by qbasic_forever »

pyuser583 wrote: post #103
qbasic_forever wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has no such laws or restrictions. The only restrictions for firing in the US are with discrimination of protected classes.

This isn’t really true. Americans have more rights than they think. It varies a lot, and can be confusing. There’s an ongoing case about how venues like Madison Square Garden are using facial recognition to deny entry to employees of law firms suing them. There are laws in place to protect theater critics. Those laws stem from an idea that it’s unlawful to prevent someone from earning a living/practicing their profes…

Nothing you mentioned has any relevance to an employer firing an employee and rehiring them as a contractor, which is perfectly legal in the US.

This actually happened a lot after the ACA/Obamacare law went in effect a decade ago. Many employers were faced with the mandate to provide insurance for full-time employees and decided to fire/downsize those roles and hire independent contractors in their place (which did not need to have healthcare provided by the employer).

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#116

Post by YourDadVPN »

dogma1138 wrote: post #82
OJFord wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly industry dependent. OP is about 'big tech' though, not finance (proper fintech aside I suppose). I think 'contractors are paid more' generally (and in fairness somewhat necessarily) ignores that it's to compensate for other employee benefits. But it's ultimately a kind of pointness/trivial truth - 'the value of holiday and sick leave and job security and life assurance and pension contributions and [...] is…

It’s also true in general tech once you get to director or senior manager grade your short and long term incentive plans can be 50% of your BP and your BP isn’t going to be too shabby either. Contractors do get paid more but they don’t earn more at least not anymore after IR35 since they have a tax rate that is over 50% as they are also liable for the 15.5% employer national insurance contributions now. Overall contr…

You can contract outside IR-35 still, no? At least there were some advertised on LinkedIn last time I looked. If the contract is outside IR-35 then you can still claim expenses and pay corporate tax instead of (most) income tax.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#117

Post by slaw »

crazygringo wrote: post #96
slaw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Seattle going as contractor means making $150k instead of $300k. Does contracting in Sweden pay double? $600k? Or as a contractor you make half what Seattle contractor is making.

I'm not sure we're all using the same definition of contractor then? For the exact same type of work? Contract work virtually always pays much more than full-time on an hourly basis, since now you've got to cover your own health care, social security, and so forth. And then on top of that you're charging more because there's no security. The whole exchange you make for full-time employment is to be paid less than sho…

I am talking about the same position as a full time and as a W-2 contractor. You have insurance when on W-2.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#118

Post by zerkten »

throw3823423 wrote: post #15
hgsgm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contractors are well paid (per day) when they are in a "short term consulting role" for a company that doesn't need a permanent position. When the role is "a body for the shop when the workload is high enough", the contractor is the least valued class in the team, paid less with less benefits, and first to cut when load or funding drops.

It's more complicated than that. Many companies that aren't mainly in tech end up having strange ideas of what competitive pay is for FTEs, thanks to HR, but managers can spend capital project money with far fewer limitations. This leads to places where the contractors are very well paid, but there's no way to convert them to FTEs, just because the offers are never high enough. Add to that the fact that raises in tho…

There are also many variations on the contractor relationship that are important. Some contractors are hired through staff augmentation companies while others work through their own company.

Working through your own company is a much better arrangement, but harder to get setup. You'll have more control over rates and have the opportunity to get more work.

This all depends on having a relationship with someone with some kind of budgetary control and relationship with procurement. If procurement can get a better deal working directly with your company then it's normally possible to work something out. This is a good reason to build relationships with the "highly political" people that technical-types normally eschew.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#119

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

giantg2 wrote: post #97
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you are an employee, but of the consulting firm. I guarantee that the consulting firm is getting a lot more for your time, than they are paying you. This is becoming a lot more common, these days. In many cases, doing this, is a good way to enter as an FTE, because the employer does a "try before you buy." I have a couple of friends that landed great FTE jobs, this way. However, that is only if you are going…

That would be true, if they were a consultant and workingnfor multiple companies. They say they are a contractor. Maybe they are even a contractor through an agency. That doesn't change anything related to potential shadow employee status.

I'll bet they are an employee, though. I know that my friends were actual W2 wage slaves.

There's no law that says they are entitled to benefits. I think that 1099s can apply to "always-there" employees (like Uber drivers).

I've heard stories about these contractor shops.

When they are stumping for the position, they bring in a few IIT/MIT/Oxford folks, then, once the ink is dry, they send over the low-achievers, and I suspect the law states that the company can't request specific folks, or that would make them "possible employees." They need to deal with whomever the contract shop sends over.

Re: Laid off by Big Tech, then recruited for contract work – at the same place

#120

Post by gadders »

blibble wrote: post #65
jimnotgym wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to say the same. In the UK you can't be made redundant if there is other work you could do at the company. Also in the UK contractors are paid a lot more than full time staff!

> Also in the UK contractors are paid a lot more than full time staff! low level staff maybe the big earners in UK finance are employees contractors don't get a bonus

I think it depends. Certainly as a banking PM what I earnt as a contractor (outside ir35) is more than I earn as a permanent employee, even with a bonus.
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