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Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

economist.com

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Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#71

Post by crop_rotation »

35208654 wrote: post #41
boeingUH60 wrote: post #19

> Also adjusted for purchasing power, they exceed $50,000 in Mississippi, America’s poorest state—higher than in France. Damn...how does a country get so rich?

Well, being the only country left with any manufacturing after a catastrophic world war is one major reason. Also, navigable waterways. Transporting goods by water costs 1/100th what it costs to transport over land. After the US established a corp of engineers to dredge our waterways to make them passable, the ability to transport goods increased substantially, making internal trade extremely cheap.

> Well, being the only country left with any manufacturing after a catastrophic world war is one major reason.

This is not the reason. Post WW II Europe was able to rebuild and for a long time they had some of the biggest companies and for a long time EU as a whole was a bigger economy than the US. It's only in the last 2 decades where the US is significantly outpacing the EU. And there are no signs of slow down.

WW II can not be the reason EU has few big tech companies. (relatively compared to the US, few exceptions always exist)

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#72

Post by swalling »

seizethecheese wrote: post #25
swalling wrote: post #17

”Average incomes have grown much faster than in western Europe or Japan. Also adjusted for purchasing power, they exceed $50,000 in Mississippi, America’s poorest state—higher than in France.” The article casually dismisses the counterpoint that the US trades high income for a lower social safety net. The average French person has a life expectancy of 82. In Mississippi it’s 74.9, on par with Lithuania. Even Vietnam…

Can you propose an adjusted income metric that takes social programs into account?

The easier method to do a more nuanced analysis is to use data visualization where you put income on one axis and lifespan on another. https://www.gapminder.org/answers/how-does-income-relate-to-...

Interesting question though. Someone's probably thought of this already and it's just not in wide use. Maybe something like annual income in dollars cut by average life expectancy?

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#73

Post by [deleted] »

crop_rotation wrote: post #13
non- wrote: post #6

> The flexibility of the labour market helps employment adapt to shifting patterns of demand. Already many of the workers in America who were laid off from Alphabet and other tech firms at the start of the year are applying their sought-after skills elsewhere, or setting up their own businesses. In continental Europe, by contrast, tech firms are still negotiating lay-offs, and may think twice about hiring there in fu…

The European approach makes a lot of sense in other stable industries (Automobile/Steel). But in a fast moving quick changing (e.g. Tech) industries, all it does is prevent new risky companies from starting and making it harder for them to adapt. Maybe it is a good thing. But only time can tell that. So far to me it seems like the American approach is winning economy wise.

[deleted]

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#74

Post by Animats »

iudqnolq wrote: post #44
marianatom wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lower life expectancy in US in general can be attributed to a more unhealthy diet and less walking, which is on the flip side due to US's economic success - affordance for more food and richer food, as well as affordance for car as transportation. Another attribution is the larger amount of immigrants, which as a segment has lower income level and thus lower life expectancy

Actually if US immigrants were their own country they'd have the best life expectancy in the world. They're holding up our stats, not pulling them down. > In fact, the researchers say, Americans’ life expectancy would steeply decline if it weren’t for immigrants and their children. Under that scenario, U.S. life expectancy in 2017 would have reverted to levels last seen in 2003 — 74.4 years for men and 79.5 years for…

> Actually if US immigrants were their own country they'd have the best life expectancy in the world. They're holding up our stats, not pulling them down.

Of course. The sick, the halt, and the lame never made the trip.

The kids who survive the trip through the Darien Gap will do fine.[1]

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/13/americas/darien-gap-us-panama...

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#75

Post by lostlogin »

ttul wrote: post #34
non- wrote: post #6

> The flexibility of the labour market helps employment adapt to shifting patterns of demand. Already many of the workers in America who were laid off from Alphabet and other tech firms at the start of the year are applying their sought-after skills elsewhere, or setting up their own businesses. In continental Europe, by contrast, tech firms are still negotiating lay-offs, and may think twice about hiring there in fu…

America operates on the principal that it is better to fail quickly and rebuild than it is to defend what’s not working to preserve the status quo for as long as possible. In a century marked by rapid technological change, it is probably better to hybridize the American and European approaches, allowing faster bankruptcies and more flexible job termination in Europe while also providing a more generous safety net in…

> America operates on the principal that it is better to fail quickly and rebuild than it is to defend what’s not working to preserve the status quo for as long as possible.

Banks seems exempt from this. I’m not financially savvy enough to know if bailing out banks is good or bad.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/governmen...

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#76

Post by camillomiller »

crop_rotation wrote: post #8

How would Europe even compete with America in the long run. America just has so many advantages (massive influx of talented workers, one country, better equiped with natural resources, the supremacy of the dolllar). There are many other reasons some of which might not seem clear cut. The average American or European life requires an economy which is on average much better than the average for the world. If you do not…

It’s so damn American to dismiss any other way of doing things. No better way than the American way, am I right? Europe is sick and tired to be the sickly buddy of the world’s bully. And we don’t care about the wonderful ways the bully keeps finding to build his muscles and reinforce his attitude. You yankees will never really get it though, so I’m talking to the wind.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#77

Post by DwnVoteHoneyPot »

camillomiller wrote: post #58
satvikpendem wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the concepts of regulated free markets, free trade between nations, and generally free immigration have created the single largest increase in human living standards in history.

Check your facts. As much as I am a firm European democrat, you might wanna see what Chinese “state driven capitalist communism” has done between 1975 and today. Again, if the measure is number of people lifted out of poverty, China wins hands down. Now, as much as we can’t consider China’s success without considering the lack of freedoms inscribed within the communist social pact, we can’t take just the good of Amer…

Check your perspective. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, Korea all industrialized faster and have a higher standard of living than China.

All did it in the 1980s - 40 years ago. All did it without oppressive communism.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#78

Post by fkcgnad »

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #59
psychlops wrote: post #11

Manufacturing is noticeably absent from the list of successes.

But America bet on the winning horse. Manufacturing no longer brings in the big bucks. We are living in the information age. In particular, there is only so much growth that you can have in a well developed industrial sector.

Information is an illusion. What are you going to do with pure information? Nothing.

For information to be worthwhile it must be actualized into physical reality.

There is huge practical evidence for this. China. The technological rise of China is unlike anything ever before seen in history. The reason why china rose is because of the massive transfer of industrial knowhow of manufacturing aka the actualizing information. We gave them the means of becoming powerful while we ourselves moved higher up the stack.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#79

Post by [deleted] »

wyager wrote: post #53
swalling wrote: post #17

”Average incomes have grown much faster than in western Europe or Japan. Also adjusted for purchasing power, they exceed $50,000 in Mississippi, America’s poorest state—higher than in France.” The article casually dismisses the counterpoint that the US trades high income for a lower social safety net. The average French person has a life expectancy of 82. In Mississippi it’s 74.9, on par with Lithuania. Even Vietnam…

> The average French person has a life expectancy of 82. In Mississippi it’s 74.9 Like 90% of these "gotchas" for southern states (including lifespan comparisons) end up decreasing or disappearing entirely when you condition on racial demographics. Not to say that invalidates the problem; just that comparing Mississippi to France doesn't make sense at all from a demographic standpoint.

[deleted]

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#80

Post by brookst »

lostlogin wrote: post #75
ttul wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America operates on the principal that it is better to fail quickly and rebuild than it is to defend what’s not working to preserve the status quo for as long as possible. In a century marked by rapid technological change, it is probably better to hybridize the American and European approaches, allowing faster bankruptcies and more flexible job termination in Europe while also providing a more generous safety net in…

> America operates on the principal that it is better to fail quickly and rebuild than it is to defend what’s not working to preserve the status quo for as long as possible. Banks seems exempt from this. I’m not financially savvy enough to know if bailing out banks is good or bad. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/governmen...

Utilities in general even. Nobody wants municipal water supplies failing quickly.

But for core commercial actives it seems like a fair observation.

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