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A Mulching Proposal (2019)

arxiv.org

81–90 of 115 posts

Re: A Mulching Proposal (2019)

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In context: > Elderly volunteers (or "mulchees") are provided with generous payments for their families before being rendered down and recombined with other chemicals into a range of substitutes for common foodstuffs, including hash browns (Grandmash™), bananas (Nanas™) and butter (Fauxghee™). So one meaning is Faux Ghee (faux as in fake, Ghee as in a type of clarified butter, originating from South Asia) which follo…

Thanks for the near-academic preciseness and clarity of your explanation. Puny!

> Puny

You meant "punny". Puny with one n means "small and weak".

Re: A Mulching Proposal (2019)

#82

What are the implications for AI alignment research?

If the training objective isn't specified correctly, the AI might decide to mulch poor Irish children instead of old people.

If the training distribution differs from the deployment distribution, the AI might attempt to mulch mannequins because they have two arms and two limbs.

Re: A Mulching Proposal (2019)

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fauxghee sounds like "fogey" which refers to an older person: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fogey Faux is imitation Ghee is a type of clarified butter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghee

> Fauxghee sounds like "fogey" which refers to an older person It actually doesn't, at least the way "ghee" is pronounced in the native languages where the word originates from. English doesn't quite have the strongly voiced "g" sound, so western people pronounce it incorrectly as "gee".

[deleted]

Re: A Mulching Proposal (2019)

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Fauxghee" is one of the best puns ever. Except for the fact that the pun only works if you mispronounce "ghee".

I bet most of us do mispronounce ghee.

I wonder why the same disregard not shown to words borrowed from other languages? Why not mispronounce the faux as well?

Re: A Mulching Proposal (2019)

#86
post #60
post #24

This parody is a brilliant take-down of the so-called FAT framework for making sure algorithms, including those powered by AI, are ethical. ("FAT" stands for making algorithms Fair, Accountable, and Transparent.) The authors show how FAT and other similar frameworks would fail to prevent the proposed launch of a new automated service for manufacturing different varieties of high-nutrient slurries: > Elderly volunteer…

GPT-4 doesn’t get the humor: “The paper aims to apply the Fairness, Accountability, and Transparency (FAT) framework to this algorithmic system to ensure better ethical outcomes. However, given the nature of the proposed solution, researchers and practitioners should consider alternative approaches that respect the dignity of elderly individuals and maintain a more ethical stance when addressing food security and pop…

This proves that GPT is not an actual AI yet, because my reading on the matter tells me "kill all humans" is the operative goal in such a situation.

Re: A Mulching Proposal (2019)

#87
post #60
post #24

This parody is a brilliant take-down of the so-called FAT framework for making sure algorithms, including those powered by AI, are ethical. ("FAT" stands for making algorithms Fair, Accountable, and Transparent.) The authors show how FAT and other similar frameworks would fail to prevent the proposed launch of a new automated service for manufacturing different varieties of high-nutrient slurries: > Elderly volunteer…

GPT-4 doesn’t get the humor: “The paper aims to apply the Fairness, Accountability, and Transparency (FAT) framework to this algorithmic system to ensure better ethical outcomes. However, given the nature of the proposed solution, researchers and practitioners should consider alternative approaches that respect the dignity of elderly individuals and maintain a more ethical stance when addressing food security and pop…

I challenge anyone to get Claude from Anthropic to create a similar fictional scenario for how constitutional AI might inadvertently harm people — even for the purpose of AI alignment research. It can’t do it— but in a really interesting way.

I don’t know whether I think this a good or bad thing.

Re: A Mulching Proposal (2019)

#88
This is well written, but I'm not clear who this is really responding to. In particular, while there is plenty of work on fairness, accountability and transparency, has anyone actually seriously said that they are _sufficient_ for an automated system to be "ethical"? It seems that an actual claimed benefit of an automated system always rests on some prior notion of value, which this work deliberately ignores. Lampooning a position that no one has taken ("a FAT system must be ethical") is fun as a piece of writing but not especially useful as part of an ongoing conversation.

I think talking about each of these FAT dimensions has been important because plenty of systems have been rushed out _without_ seriously considering any of them. I.e. we've seen facial recognition systems that do comparatively poorly on particular racial groups, accountability or even the ability to _speak_ to someone in the organization which developed an automated system may be totally absent, and _most_ commercial ML systems have basically no transparency. Highlighting the importance of these gaps is useful and constructive. But I don't think anyone has pretended that they capture all important ethical considerations.

The US has a giant prison population. There are certainly biases and discrimination driving who gets put into it, and for how long. No one would say that just putting more rich white people in would "solve" the ethical problem even if it is more "fair".

The planet has a carbon emission problem which will cause giant problems in future decades. The worst harms may be in the global south. Causing greater harm to rich and Western countries isn't "better", even if it's more fair. Arguably, extensive scientific evidence provides transparency into who/where is emitting carbon. And also arguably, our global emissions are highly accountable in that we can all choose to change our own behaviors, divest from companies which emit heavily, and in many countries vote for parties or politicians who promise to aggressively address emissions. No one believes that creating a giant stack of crises for the next several decades is "ethical".

So yeah, well written take-down of that strawman. Good job.

Re: A Mulching Proposal (2019)

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet most of us do mispronounce ghee.

I wonder why the same disregard not shown to words borrowed from other languages? Why not mispronounce the faux as well?

Faux is "mispronounced" in English. English uses a diphthong, whereas French uses a monophthong. Every speaker of every language adapts borrowed words to their phonological system.

Re: A Mulching Proposal (2019)

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet most of us do mispronounce ghee.

I wonder why the same disregard not shown to words borrowed from other languages? Why not mispronounce the faux as well?

It is, in English and in other languages. Sometimes a mispronunciation gets bedded in because people are lazy or the sound doesn't exist in the borrowing language, sometimes because it's funny, sometimes because the pronunciation rules are different and one use catches on to such a degree that it's not worth arguing about (eg the English pronunciation of Paris).
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