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Surviving Burnout (2015)

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Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#151

Post by sledz »

BossingAround wrote: post #135
sledz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, i totally agree. The more years I have behind my belt as developer the less I care. I do what I'm paid for. I do it to best of my abilities, but I don't care much. I care for my wife, my unborn child, my dog, myself. Seriously live is so much more than work and code. I learned to balance myself. I need job for $ and that's it. If I won lottery I would still code, just not as much (2 h/day) and only fun stuff. W…

Do you still learn new practices/technologies/stacks/...? I'm asking because that's my problem. As I start to care less, I also care less to keep myself up to date with new tech stacks. Consequently, it's becoming painfully aware to me that if I were to lose my amazingly well-paid job in which I (feel like I truly) excel, it'd be a pain to look for a new one. Because of my niche, I would, most likely, have to go down…

Well, I don't. I try to focus on basics and rest I learn on the job.

To be honest I know that I have less value on the market because of that. It is just I don't want second job of just keeping up.

I read article here and there when I have moment, but that's about it.

On other hand I find ecosystem in JS (my slice of cake) is slowing down. There is no new framework every week like it used to be. No ground braking changes.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#152

Post by CapstanRoller »

ElFitz wrote: post #96
delusional wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be asking too much on a public forum, but would you be able to describe what differentiates these two for you? Feel free to decline if it's too personal or you just don't feel like it.

In short, depression, to me, was total and absolute hopelessness. Burn out, on the other hand, brought me dread, anxiety, exhaustion, and the feeling of being trapped in a pointless but never-ending cycle. If I were to dive into more details, depression gave me a rock-solid certainty that I could never be happy, or meaningfully enjoy life in any meaningful way. There might have been some joyous and light-hearted mome…

Incredible comment. Thank you for writing this. In a world of toxic positivity, such honest open blunt dialog about mental health is not only refreshing, but crucial.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#153

Post by ornornor »

steveBK123 wrote: post #111
delusional wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be asking too much on a public forum, but would you be able to describe what differentiates these two for you? Feel free to decline if it's too personal or you just don't feel like it.

For me I think depression & burnout have opposite impacts on sleep, not sure what others have experienced. Depression, in the literature, in my experience, and what I've seen in my spouse leads to just wanting to sleep and not get out of bed. Burnout, however, lead me to be completely incapable of sleep. I couldn't fall asleep for hours. I'd wake up 10x/night in some anxiety sweat thinking about some way I could make…

Same here, burnout definitely results in waking up multiple times a night and the first thought going through my head was about some work related BS. Idem waking up anxious before the alarm, cluttered with work BS thoughts.

It always did boil down to having no agency over the outcomes but being made responsible for them, and my warning of the idiocy/likely failure mode of the plan being ignored.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#154

Post by ornornor »

delusional wrote: post #143
ElFitz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short, depression, to me, was total and absolute hopelessness. Burn out, on the other hand, brought me dread, anxiety, exhaustion, and the feeling of being trapped in a pointless but never-ending cycle. If I were to dive into more details, depression gave me a rock-solid certainty that I could never be happy, or meaningfully enjoy life in any meaningful way. There might have been some joyous and light-hearted mome…

I want to thank you for sharing and to return the favor by sharing some of myself. Don't feel like you have to respond or even read it. I just feel bad for asking you to share without providing you with anything back. I'm a afraid I'm going through something similar myself, and it's incredibly valuable for me to read what you've gone though and relate that to myself. I honestly have no idea how I'll handle this or wh…

Just wanted to say this is similar to what I experienced the last time around: shit management decisions that cut corners everywhere and left us, the engineers, to take the blame for it and spend our time dealing with the constant fire fighting that resulted with no resources to actually prevent it from reoccurring.

I also felt useless, like it was my fault, like I suck, like I don’t ever want to do software for money ever again, and like I’m a wimp because others have been working this way for decades… I’m now on my 18th month of avoiding to work again.

All this to say: don’t ignore the warning signs. This is a toxic job, nothing good will come out of it anymore, and delaying your resignation (or months long sick leave if you can get any) will only make the problem worse while requiring an even longer recovery period.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#155

Post by ornornor »

dxdm wrote: post #69
ornornor wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty much everywhere I’ve worked at in my 10 years career so far. I honestly don’t know what to do about it. It seems hopeless and I’ve been avoiding going back to work for the last 18 months. I also wonder if there is something wrong with me because everyone else seems to cope with it somehow and keep on working. I’ve thought about starting my own business but it’s too much hard work which I don’t think I…

> I also wonder if there is something wrong with me There is not, and it's important to understand that. The environment is grinding you down, which can make you doubt yourself. In essence, your mind gets tricked into taking the blame for the situation you're finding yourself in. In the end, while you might not always be able to modify the environment, you can always move away from it. You're avoiding it - you can se…

Thank you

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#156

Post by ornornor »

regulation_d wrote: post #128
throw888777 wrote: post #84

Here's my advice based on my personal experience with burnout. It's all easier said than done, I'm afraid. 1) People are part of the problem. You solve problems for customers with technical solutions, but your solutions should take into account people in the company. e.g. "how do I solve problem X with a manager that won't listen?" Other people are not a mysterious outside factor, they are a piece of the puzzle that…

I'm sure most of us have worked for shit companies that have taken advantage of us. In those cases, I think your points can be helpful. But I'd also suggest that it's possible to find companies that align with your values, both around work/life balance and around the way the work gets done. That's certainly a skill that I've had to work to develop. And I've had some major misses along the way. But it's probably also…

> But I'd also suggest that it's possible to find companies that align with your values, both around work/life balance and around the way the work gets done.

How? I keep reading this in similar discussions, but I haven’t found practical advice on how to actually do that. And I can’t trust myself because I keep joining shitty companies on that front one after another.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#157

Post by cookieperson »

etiam wrote: post #106
cookieperson wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You described the symptoms of psychopaths, sociopaths and narcissists in a single sentence. Research these personality disorders. It will bring you peace and explain the majority of malfunctions in the world. Specifically look into the sociopath apathy empath triad.

Highly explanatory, certainly. And knowing about them is arguably much better than not knowing, but I'm not necessarily on board with "bring you peace". I feel like I run into them a lot, and it's consistently awful handling it in practice, since they seem to delight in refining their skills at social and psychological manipulation, and they position themselves to use the mediocre herd as a weapon. Some methods of ch…

I have dealt with it too. If you are someone of noble intent who is capable of feeling emotions and doesn't ride the apath line it's hard. Your goal should never be to defeat them, they will smell blood in the water and go after you relentlessly. It's how they operate.

The best advice I have is remain honest, don't play their games, document anything said in unrecordable media, and use the fact that they don't know how to stop being excessively brutal or recruiting others to do so against them if required.

No one has a recipe, each person operating like this has their own way of working. There are common exploitations they will use, but all you can do is laugh internally knowing their flaws. Their biggest weakness is they will destroy people unfairly and eventually cause enough damage to an institution that someone above them will realize those losses eventually. You can't call these things out, again you'll be a primary target. But you can easily get them on paper doing this.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#158

Post by david-gpu »

delusional wrote: post #144
david-gpu wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find I just don’t have ambitions for anything anymore. I simply exist without any hope/expectation of joy/excitement. Been there. It gets better, but you will have to change some things. This is what worked for me: allow yourself to have fun. It is not frivolous. It is not insignificant. It is an important part of a fulfilling life, so make time for it. Literally carve some time for it and put it in your daily/we…

> Passive activities like watching TV/podcasts/videogames are a bad choice. I'd like to chime in and say that social video games like CSGO or Dota or whatever with friends on discord can be wonderful social activities.

I bet they are, but they are also sedentary. Exercise and the outdoors are great at reducing anxiety, and depression is often caused by chronic anxiety, which is why videogames would not be my weapon of choice to combat it.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#159

Post by steveBK123 »

ornornor wrote: post #153
steveBK123 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me I think depression & burnout have opposite impacts on sleep, not sure what others have experienced. Depression, in the literature, in my experience, and what I've seen in my spouse leads to just wanting to sleep and not get out of bed. Burnout, however, lead me to be completely incapable of sleep. I couldn't fall asleep for hours. I'd wake up 10x/night in some anxiety sweat thinking about some way I could make…

Same here, burnout definitely results in waking up multiple times a night and the first thought going through my head was about some work related BS. Idem waking up anxious before the alarm, cluttered with work BS thoughts. It always did boil down to having no agency over the outcomes but being made responsible for them, and my warning of the idiocy/likely failure mode of the plan being ignored.

Yes - "no agency over outcomes & being responsible for them" is quick recipe for burnout

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#160

Post by ornornor »

steveBK123 wrote: post #159
ornornor wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, burnout definitely results in waking up multiple times a night and the first thought going through my head was about some work related BS. Idem waking up anxious before the alarm, cluttered with work BS thoughts. It always did boil down to having no agency over the outcomes but being made responsible for them, and my warning of the idiocy/likely failure mode of the plan being ignored.

Yes - "no agency over outcomes & being responsible for them" is quick recipe for burnout

It’s SOP in many companies in my experience :(
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