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The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

opencoreventures.com

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Re: The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

#81
RedHat is the employer of many Linux developers, including maintainers for GNU software etc., with SuSE and Canonical distant followers (at least it used to be like that).

So I guess that makes them both a very significant contributor as well as deserved receiver of financial resources towards F/OSS. OTOH, apart from adaptions to ever-changing hardware, you could say that the times where Linux innovations are actually serving end users is long, long behind us, and anything RH pushed, such as systemd, gnome, and in particular podman (to take away from Docker ie what RH sees as their market, and theirs alone) etc. is basically zero sum software created out of a self-serving interest of selling support contracts by definition. That Linux isn't pro consumer is also evident by it being used for clouds and for a privacy-invading mobile O/S.

Linux was nice and gave a direction to a developer community as long as it was chasing commercial Unix/POSIX with strong precedents and blueprints what to implement. Now it's just an IBM division.

Re: The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

#82
I quite disagree with two ideas in this article:

1. For me until proven otherwise, RedHat have an OpenCore model, the CentOS shift is too recent to be meaningful. My company literally panicked about their CentOS servers because they didn't want a rolling distro and so decided to switch to something else free for low risk VM (worse I'm afraid) and pay RHEL support for critical applications.

2.There are a shitload of successful support company for real OpenSource product, the author just choose to ignore them. Maybe because they are mostly smaller and "uninvestable". Just look a the support advertised options for PostgreSQL in North-America only... https://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/nort...

Re: The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

#83

RedHat is the employer of many Linux developers, including maintainers for GNU software etc., with SuSE and Canonical distant followers (at least it used to be like that). So I guess that makes them both a very significant contributor as well as deserved receiver of financial resources towards F/OSS. OTOH, apart from adaptions to ever-changing hardware, you could say that the times where Linux innovations are actuall…

And in the process, a cheaper alternative to Aix.

People that weren't there in the begining don't get it that Linux only really took off around the UNIX offerings of the early 2000's, when Oracle, Compaq, Intel, IBM money started be pumped into Linux in some form.

The thing with UNIX/POSIX clones, is that there is hardly any inovation beyond adding new drivers and kernel features, as POSIX doesn't have anything else to offer.

Re: The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

#84

Reasons why people pay for Red Hat: 1. Customer support 2. Certifications 3. Vendor support I don't know another distribution of Linux that provides all these things to the extent Red Hat does. You don't use Red Hat because you want to, you use it because it's the only choice. Any business could do exactly the same thing, and do it better than Red Hat. But there's really not much reason for a customer to move away fr…

SuSE for example.

Re: The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

#85
post #80

One might argue that Oracle also made this model work. Not sure about their revenue between different divisions, but they finished open-sourcing even the last proprietary part of their JDK, making OpenJDK the reference implementation, plus they finance 90+% of all its commits. They make some revenue from selling OracleJDK licenses (and even most of those are free if you stay on the latest version) which includes supp…

The funny thing about Oracle haters is how they ignore that Oracle and IBM stand by Java since the early days, they collaborated with Sun on the Network Computer project, were one of the first SQL vendors to include the JRE on the database engine, provide a GUI based on Swing, JSF framework, JVM implementation, IDE, and so on.

They also ignore the fact that Sun also charged money for support, JDK was only available as free beer with source on request, the whole Apache drama with the TCK, and access to legacy versions required a Sun developer account with license.

Or that they were the ones introducing the separation of having UNIX for users, and an additional license for an UNIX SDK, which is what made people rush to improve GCC, until then mostly ignored project.

Re: The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

#86
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost no corporations pay for RHEL in any meaningful quantity. It's corp IT who pays for support and subscriptions, not production webops. Cell phone manufacturers and social media companies run collectively around 100M CentOS servers that I know if directly.

Perhaps this is why RedHat is declaring CentOS end-of-life: https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/fastest-road-centos-linux-red...

Partly it is, but there wasn't much hope to convert those to RHEL. The plan was:

1) to offload the production of the releases (effectively what is now Alma Linux). Because there's so much use of CentOS, it was pretty much a given that somebody would pick up the slack. Most of those companies weren't running stock CentOS anymore, they had their own downstream repositories

2) to give more insight into the making of RHEL minor release to CentOS SIGs and to companies that run CentOS derivatives

Facebook for example does not use the RHEL kernel and was one of the early adopters of CentOS Stream even before CentOS Linux 8 was terminated.

Re: The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

#87
post #82

I quite disagree with two ideas in this article: 1. For me until proven otherwise, RedHat have an OpenCore model, the CentOS shift is too recent to be meaningful. My company literally panicked about their CentOS servers because they didn't want a rolling distro and so decided to switch to something else free for low risk VM (worse I'm afraid) and pay RHEL support for critical applications. 2.There are a shitload of s…

why didn't they just switch to rockylinux?

Re: The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

#88
post #85
post #80

One might argue that Oracle also made this model work. Not sure about their revenue between different divisions, but they finished open-sourcing even the last proprietary part of their JDK, making OpenJDK the reference implementation, plus they finance 90+% of all its commits. They make some revenue from selling OracleJDK licenses (and even most of those are free if you stay on the latest version) which includes supp…

The funny thing about Oracle haters is how they ignore that Oracle and IBM stand by Java since the early days, they collaborated with Sun on the Network Computer project, were one of the first SQL vendors to include the JRE on the database engine, provide a GUI based on Swing, JSF framework, JVM implementation, IDE, and so on. They also ignore the fact that Sun also charged money for support, JDK was only available a…

I think that most Oracle haters hate them for their obscenely expensive and often idiosyncratic database product, as well as their legal division being larger than their engineering division.

And speaking of databases, the idea of running custom Java code inside the database seems like an abuse of the database. How many people actually use this feature, and how many of them like it (as opposed to having made a bad technical decision 20 years ago)?

Re: The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

#89
(Note: I work for Red Hat)

I'm constantly amazed that people still don't understand why Red Hat makes money, and this article won't enlighten you as it doesn't understand it as well as being full of other incidental mistakes (like their description of CentOS is way off the mark).

Red Hat takes Linux and certifies it against all kinds of government, safety, privacy etc standardards, such as PCI and FIPS and numerous local ones. As a result if you are a government or many large companies you simply cannot download Linux and YOLO it. You are legally required to use the certified software so you take the path of least resistance and buy RHEL. That's it. It's why Red Hat makes piles of money, and Canonical or your SaaS does not. Understand what your big customers are required to have and provide it to them, even though it's boring and expensive to do.

Re: The Red Hat model only worked for Red Hat

#90

Hold on... aren't there a bunch of incredily successful "open source" / "source available" companies? Databricks, Cockroach Labs, Hashicorp, MongoDB, Elasticsearch etc?

Yes this article is promoting the "open core" model those companies follow, as opposed to the "pure" open source model Red Hat follows.

Which is basically PD and Shareware for post-2000 folks.
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