Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds

#21

Post by mbreese » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 8:19 PM UTC

algoatecorn wrote: post #3

The role of eccDNA in cancer is not a particularly new concept. However, studies like this are important to further elucidate cancer-promoting mechanisms. Additionally, the use of artificial eccDNA holds a lot of promise for genetic enhancement in many forms of life from humans, to livestock, to plants. Essentially, we could create artificial chromosomes which express useful genes or have inverted repeats which deliv…

But they can also be devious.

Because they aren’t under the same selective pressure as normal chromosomes, the number of ecDNA molecules can be highly variable between daughter cells. This is one of the potential resistance mechanisms for a tumor. If you have a drug that targets a gene in the ecDNA, the tumor could only keep clones with a small number of ecDNAs during treatment. Then after the drug has cleared, the number of ecDNAs can then rise again.

When you lose the default 2 copy state, natural selection can follow non-Mendelian patterns.

Re: Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds

#22

Post by panabee » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 8:49 PM UTC

dkural wrote: post #10

panabee wrote: post #6

if you are a cancer researcher, please share research assumptions that are debunked yet still commonly held. i’m compiling a list. these must be empirically supported. for instance, i believe negative conclusions based on knockout studies are misleading, but this is not empirically proven and would not qualify. (if you knock out a fire alarm and the house still functions, saying the alarm serves no purpose is flawed.…

A knock-out study will work as well as the precise definition and measurement of the phenotype you're looking for will allow. The point you're making is well understood by geneticist. There's about 22K genes in the genome, if your typical genetic screen returns a list of a 0 to 1K positives, no one is claiming that the 21K genes are absolutely uninvolved in the phenotype.

i have read many studies that claimed a gene had no function in a pathway after performing knockout and observing no effect.

there are many great research papers, but there are also many flawed ones.

Re: Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds

#23

Post by robocat » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 9:27 PM UTC

jtbayly wrote: post #4

algoatecorn wrote: post #3

The role of eccDNA in cancer is not a particularly new concept. However, studies like this are important to further elucidate cancer-promoting mechanisms. Additionally, the use of artificial eccDNA holds a lot of promise for genetic enhancement in many forms of life from humans, to livestock, to plants. Essentially, we could create artificial chromosomes which express useful genes or have inverted repeats which deliv…

Reading this gives me an understanding for how some of my friends feel when I talk about technology. “Make sure to set the dip switches on your SCSI drive and confirm your cable is USB 4+ PD.” Lol

Yeah, status seeking by using uncommon words or concepts, often noticeable in geek-culture. The same thing occurs in many cultures. “Well-educated” people in England might use more sophisticated[1] language and drop[2] references in Greek, Latin, or other languages of le très bien formées. “Elucidate” feels like a status signal in the OP’s comment.

Personally one has been working on counter-signalling[3] by using simpler words and concepts, although one cannot say one is succeeding.

[1] https://www.etymonline.com/word/sophisticated

[2] fucked if I can find a good reference for my usage of “drop” here however hardly I tried

[3] https://www.marketingsociety.com/the-library/counter-signall... - I chose this link because it appears to be well written and uses “elucidate”[0], “dropped” and “aperçus”.

[0] They go on to elucidate. Apparently if you… play strategy s* = ( s*, s*M, s*) where s* < s*M. Let μ describe beliefs that are Bayes consistent with playing s*. Then the expected gross payoff to sender q from signal s*M is Eμ[q´|s*M,q] = M … Yup, they rather lost me at that point.

Re: Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds

#24

Post by woleium » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 9:33 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #23

jtbayly wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this gives me an understanding for how some of my friends feel when I talk about technology. “Make sure to set the dip switches on your SCSI drive and confirm your cable is USB 4+ PD.” Lol

Yeah, status seeking by using uncommon words or concepts, often noticeable in geek-culture. The same thing occurs in many cultures. “Well-educated” people in England might use more sophisticated[1] language and drop[2] references in Greek, Latin, or other languages of le très bien formées. “Elucidate” feels like a status signal in the OP’s comment. Personally one has been working on counter-signalling[3] by using sim…

idk man, elucidate is pretty common if you spend a lot of time reading scientific papers (I'm assuming oop does).

Re: Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds

#25

Post by staunton » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 9:41 PM UTC

woleium wrote: post #24

robocat wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, status seeking by using uncommon words or concepts, often noticeable in geek-culture. The same thing occurs in many cultures. “Well-educated” people in England might use more sophisticated[1] language and drop[2] references in Greek, Latin, or other languages of le très bien formées. “Elucidate” feels like a status signal in the OP’s comment. Personally one has been working on counter-signalling[3] by using sim…

idk man, elucidate is pretty common if you spend a lot of time reading scientific papers (I'm assuming oop does).

Which only proves the point robocat was making

Re: Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds

#26

Post by robocat » Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 9:47 PM UTC

woleium wrote: post #24

robocat wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, status seeking by using uncommon words or concepts, often noticeable in geek-culture. The same thing occurs in many cultures. “Well-educated” people in England might use more sophisticated[1] language and drop[2] references in Greek, Latin, or other languages of le très bien formées. “Elucidate” feels like a status signal in the OP’s comment. Personally one has been working on counter-signalling[3] by using sim…

idk man, elucidate is pretty common if you spend a lot of time reading scientific papers (I'm assuming oop does).

Exactly the point: well-educated people use words that appear in scientific papers. Showing you are well-educated is a common status signal amongst many well-educated people.

Some people are lingual chameleons[1]: their language patterns completely change depending on their social surroundings. And many people are liguistic artistes[2] who choose their language to paint an image of themselves.

However, failure is rife.

[1] one Google result, different usage.

[2] Sprachartisten

Re: Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds

#27

Post by Dalewyn » Sun, Apr 16, 2023, 2:34 AM UTC

jtbayly wrote: post #4

algoatecorn wrote: post #3

The role of eccDNA in cancer is not a particularly new concept. However, studies like this are important to further elucidate cancer-promoting mechanisms. Additionally, the use of artificial eccDNA holds a lot of promise for genetic enhancement in many forms of life from humans, to livestock, to plants. Essentially, we could create artificial chromosomes which express useful genes or have inverted repeats which deliv…

Reading this gives me an understanding for how some of my friends feel when I talk about technology. “Make sure to set the dip switches on your SCSI drive and confirm your cable is USB 4+ PD.” Lol

>confirm your cable is USB 4+ PD.

I'm a tech nerd and wouldn't know WTF that means because USB is universally meaningless.

Setting DIP switches is perfectly obvious, though. I miss the days messing with them and also jumpers.

Re: Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds

#28

Post by wrycoder » Sun, Apr 16, 2023, 2:41 AM UTC

robocat wrote: post #26

woleium wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk man, elucidate is pretty common if you spend a lot of time reading scientific papers (I'm assuming oop does).

Exactly the point: well-educated people use words that appear in scientific papers. Showing you are well-educated is a common status signal amongst many well-educated people. Some people are lingual chameleons[1]: their language patterns completely change depending on their social surroundings. And many people are liguistic artistes[2] who choose their language to paint an image of themselves. However, failure is rif…

Well-educated people use more precise language than the average person.

Otoh, the article uses words like roly-poly and willy-nilly, which I found jarring in the context of a moderately technical article from Stanford Medical.

Re: Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds

#29

Post by mensetmanusman » Sun, Apr 16, 2023, 3:20 AM UTC

robocat wrote: post #23

jtbayly wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this gives me an understanding for how some of my friends feel when I talk about technology. “Make sure to set the dip switches on your SCSI drive and confirm your cable is USB 4+ PD.” Lol

Yeah, status seeking by using uncommon words or concepts, often noticeable in geek-culture. The same thing occurs in many cultures. “Well-educated” people in England might use more sophisticated[1] language and drop[2] references in Greek, Latin, or other languages of le très bien formées. “Elucidate” feels like a status signal in the OP’s comment. Personally one has been working on counter-signalling[3] by using sim…

It’s not necessarily status seeking, it’s mostly higher bit rate verbal communication.

Re: Tiny DNA circles are key drivers of cancer, study finds

#30

Post by antoniuschan99 » Sun, Apr 16, 2023, 3:27 AM UTC

saranormous wrote: post #20

is there good background reading on ecDNA somewhere?

I used chatgpt and it mentioned a plant called the mayapple that contains an ecdna inhibitor called podophyllotoxin. The semi synthetic derivative is Etoposide. Also it mentioned Cisplatin as another ecdna inhibitor.