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OpenCore Legacy Patcher – Use new macOS versions on old hardware

dortania.github.io

41–50 of 86 posts

Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher – Use new macOS versions on old hardware

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Supporting old hardware costs money because you need to write more tests. Not supporting old hardware has major costs too: ewaste pollution. But of course those costs are 'externalized' and not borne by Apple, but by everyone else.

You do understand that the old HW doesn't suddenly stop working when it's unsupported by the new OS.

True, but it means you don't get security updates, because Apple doesn't provide full security updates except on the newest OS:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-secu...

Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher – Use new macOS versions on old hardware

#42

I have a 2015 iMac, that I spec'ed up as a custom build from Apple, so annoying they don't reconize the power of these machines still and cut support. I have an 4ghz i7, 32gb ram and a Radeon 395x graphics card, but support is cut. The machine still runs beautifully on Monterey, so I am hesitant to use the OpenCore legacy patcher, but may have to one day if apps i use drop support. I love my iMac, but in future, I th…

I mean, you have an 8-year old computer. What did you realistically expect would happen here? For Apple to support your computer until the end of time even if you’re the only person using that model? In the tech world, 8 years is already practically a lifetime. At a certain point, it’s no longer profitable for a company to continue supporting old systems. And that rarely has to do with power and almost entirely due t…

>In the tech world, 8 years is already practically a lifetime.

I feel like that was the case in the 90s and earlier, but now? An 8 year old computer is quite capable of doing the kinds of basic browsing that most non-geek users do. But without the newest macOS, they are open to security vulnerabilities.

Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher – Use new macOS versions on old hardware

#43
Given that it's possible for this tool to work, doesn't that mean Apple's choice to not officially allow the installation of new operating systems on these old computers had zero technical merit? What reason other than greed did Apple have for making that decision then? And how does "we're arbitrarily restricting what your old but still functional computer can do, so that you'll throw it away and buy a new one" square with caring about the environment?

Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher – Use new macOS versions on old hardware

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you have an 8-year old computer. What did you realistically expect would happen here? For Apple to support your computer until the end of time even if you’re the only person using that model? In the tech world, 8 years is already practically a lifetime. At a certain point, it’s no longer profitable for a company to continue supporting old systems. And that rarely has to do with power and almost entirely due t…

It's a computer I paid over £3,000 for, that got cut off 7 years after release for no valid reason as a customer. Yes I understand what you are saying, but there is no need for it, Operating systems didn't require suddenly more powerful computers, years ago it made sense because the machine just couldn't handle it, but today my machine handles everything just fine and is higher spec than machines Apple has determined…

>It's a computer I paid over £3,000 for, that got cut off 7 years after release

"after release" isn't even the metric we should be using. Rather we should measure starting from when the machine is _no longer sold_. Take the "Mac Pro 2013" (aka Trash Can Mac). It was introduced in 2013 but for sale by Apple until December 2019. macOS 13 Ventura, released October 2022, dropped support for it. That's only 3 years of support!

Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher – Use new macOS versions on old hardware

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Supporting old hardware costs money because you need to write more tests. Not supporting old hardware has major costs too: ewaste pollution. But of course those costs are 'externalized' and not borne by Apple, but by everyone else.

You do understand that the old HW doesn't suddenly stop working when it's unsupported by the new OS.

The problem I've encountered with several older Apple and Android devices is that the hardware works just fine, and the older version of the OS also works well enough, but more and more apps begin to require a newer version of the OS.

When I can't install, upgrade, or use these apps by normal means, the usefulness of the otherwise-fine device dwindles.

For the apps I've experienced this with, I don't even think they truly need the newer version of the OS. I imagine the developers just wanted to reduce testing and customer support overhead in most cases.

For any app functionality that may actually require a newer OS version, I'd probably be just fine if that functionality were disabled/unavailable on older devices, especially if it let me use the rest of the app.

Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher – Use new macOS versions on old hardware

#46
post #26

Datapoint: I upgraded a min-2012 MacBook Pro to Monterey using this approach and it performs reasonably well for basic use. I also swapped the hdd for an ssd and maxed the memory to 16gb.

Did you reinstall OS, or it works as upgrade?

I upgraded from Catalina to Big Sur (without formatting), and then used Onyx to clear all the caches on my Mac. It works perfectly. Mac mini 2012, 16gb ram, 512 ssd.

https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/index.html

Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher – Use new macOS versions on old hardware

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do understand that the old HW doesn't suddenly stop working when it's unsupported by the new OS.

True, but it means you don't get security updates, because Apple doesn't provide full security updates except on the newest OS: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-secu...

This is not true. I've just got a security update (12.6.5) for a nine year old hardware. Newest is macOS (13) is not supported on this hardware

Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher – Use new macOS versions on old hardware

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a computer I paid over £3,000 for, that got cut off 7 years after release for no valid reason as a customer. Yes I understand what you are saying, but there is no need for it, Operating systems didn't require suddenly more powerful computers, years ago it made sense because the machine just couldn't handle it, but today my machine handles everything just fine and is higher spec than machines Apple has determined…

> You make it sound like it's some crazy high cost for Apple to do this, yet this small open source project seems to be able to do it and for them it would be much more difficult. Hacks are in no way shape or form equivalent to official support. Both in functionality (this thread is full of people talking about small issues popping up more and more frequently, especially in the latest OS versions which actually have…

I disagree. It's six years after they stopped selling it.

Apple do this on purpose to make people buy new machines, it wouldn't be expensive for them too provide a small amount of support, if they are not willing to do that they shouldn't be making such machines. 6 years is not a long time.

Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher – Use new macOS versions on old hardware

#49

Given that it's possible for this tool to work, doesn't that mean Apple's choice to not officially allow the installation of new operating systems on these old computers had zero technical merit? What reason other than greed did Apple have for making that decision then? And how does "we're arbitrarily restricting what your old but still functional computer can do, so that you'll throw it away and buy a new one" squar…

Because Engineeering is about trade offs from a business level, not just about technical ones. The support costs with older systems go up because the number of users decreases because you have to keep spare parts around for those old machines. That’s what Apple support is. If it’s not a supported model, they’re not going to do any hardware repairs for you period. Tying software and hardware that way isn’t a terrible decision to make from Apple’s perspective. Customer’s also have to pick - do I want to continue in the ecosystem or so I get out. Apple doesn’t want users getting disgruntled because their QA is no longer testing software running on older hardware.

Also Apple doesn’t deprecate things by dropping support suddenly. That wouldn’t be great UX. They wait for that to happen naturally over time and, when the number of users is sufficiently small enough past some point AND they want to make a technical break, they start stopping to support a model.

I think it’s valuable to compare alternatives. Apple supports their software and hardware much much better than any competitor AFAIK. For example, iPhones have a guaranteed support level of five years iirc and often it can go even older despite engineers on the ground wanting to deprecate things faster because of the maintenance costs (eg dropping 32-bit macOS support went on longer than line engineers were happy with). Competitors? Google does 3 years of upgrades on their flagship phones and laptops and 5 years of security updates if I recall correctly.

That’s why I’d say the framing is wrong. If anything Apple is a leader in figuring out how to provide the best support I’m the industry by vertically integrating everything (other SW vendors often can have one of forks for every product which makes it quicker to launch something but economically limits how long those support operations can last. Google tried several architectural efforts to stabilize this situation for Android but as I said they still haven’t managed this for their own hardware - they maybe solved it at the OS level but firmware still has security flaws so if a vendor (often the chip vendor, not the oem) stops making updates (they do frequently and definitely don’t go out of their way to unify their software stack - they want planned obsolescence more than OEMs), you’re SOL. Apple is a tad bit better insulated from this since they have a stronger negotiating hand with partners / have vertically integrated a lot of components in house which lowers support costs / complexity. Still, they’re not fully immune to it because those pressures are multifaceted and complex.

So to answer your question, sure it’s not strict technical merit write now but that’s too myopic. It’s a signaling mechanism to customers that “we are not doing any work to validate software we write works on old machines”. Lots of things to criticize Apple about, but best in class support in the commercial space doesn’t feel like the best place. I could be wrong though.

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