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Stop Building Closed Ecosystems

buttondown.email

1–10 of 174 posts

Re: Stop Building Closed Ecosystems

#2
This short essay is a lament about how close we are to creating really good cross-platform solutions, but how we always fall short because of closing off our ecosystems to each other. I hope to spark a bit of conversation with this about how we can do better moving forwards!

Re: Stop Building Closed Ecosystems

#4
The main problem is who gets to decide on the one anointed approach. Diversity ends up being a good thing, and also makes everything more messy and more complex.

Take your example of the Open Web. I wouldn't be in software without the Open Web. I hand-write HTML and CSS to this day! But many people hate the web stack. They hate the ergonomics and enjoy better ecosystem for nearly every possible thing implemented in the web. I think ultimately, that's ok and it's "worth" having competing standards, because the alternative is - pardon the dramatics - authoritarian.

edits:

> #2) Check for prior art first. The problem may have been solved before...

I generally take issue with the statement "this is a solved problem". It ends up killing critical thought on the vine. I think everyone is better served thinking critically, and yes maybe something off the shelf is the right choice. But think critically, and freely, first.

> #3) "be opened-minded to other approaches"

contradicts the idea of building one-thing all-together no?

Re: Stop Building Closed Ecosystems

#6
This is my main fear with Flutter CanvasKit & "Towards a Modern Web Stack". https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22Towards%20a%20modern%20web%...

They are using canvas & webgpu, & making their own rendering engine (borrowing Skia) to take web apps from part of a participatory open ecosystem where extensions & user-agency work, & turning the page into a giant animated screen.

The best open ecosystem we have on the planet is being body snatched by the closed-as-can-be native app world.

The post here is a more developer-centric view of open & I think that's so valuable. It feels like we really used to have a more share-early share-by-default spirit.

I think that's one thing that kind of agitated so many folks about webdev, is how share-centric it was.

We didn't have established experts, there were no well established patterns, everyone was collectively figuring it out. Finding libraries that might work for you or doodling around with an idea was lead by sensibilities fit & taste. Throw it against the wall & see what sticks.

The web today has really become a far far far more hyperindustrialized system, with far more popular (not enforced) norms & conventions. The random lead devs at a company are no longer necessarily intrepid explorers navigating an open sea of possibility. Everything is more set. And we no longer have that spirit of it just being us in the room, of sharing by default. The expectation is there's very very smart far off people building libraries, and we're just working on our app. The mindset has shifted, the culture has shifted, in a way where open is no longer the collective exciting happening place that we are all a part of.

Re: Stop Building Closed Ecosystems

#7

The long-term solution seems to be to ditch iOS and Android on mobile devices entirely and replace them with fully featured operating systems based on Linux, e.g. https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/

I like the idea of Ubuntu Touch (having worked with Ubuntu a lot), but even more so Firefox OS. As a web developer, the idea that "native" could simply mean "the Web platform" is really attractive.

Re: Stop Building Closed Ecosystems

#8
post #6

This is my main fear with Flutter CanvasKit & "Towards a Modern Web Stack". https://hn.algolia.com/?query=%22Towards%20a%20modern%20web%... They are using canvas & webgpu, & making their own rendering engine (borrowing Skia) to take web apps from part of a participatory open ecosystem where extensions & user-agency work, & turning the page into a giant animated screen. The best open ecosystem we have on the planet is…

I think there's potential in those ideas, if only they are not to the detriment of the Web (which is already working just fine).

As an alternative to iOS and Android development, I welcome ground-up solutions as long as they can get text editing right. However, I bring that up as I can't see anyone ever making a ground-up text view as reliable as a browser or native one (consider CJK, RTL, and vertical text, and IME input) without a dedicated team spending years of work and closely examining each platform's equivalent.

Re: Stop Building Closed Ecosystems

#9
The native side of this has long been addressed by cross-platform toolkits including but not limited to: Qt, GTK, FLTK, WxWidgets (note: all FLOSS, at least optionally).

Alas, web development "decided" to completely reinvent the wheel for all this stuff, leading to a new generation of heading-to-native toolkits derived from browser-based technologies, such as Electron, React Native and Flutter.

Unless you believe there is any mechanism to force a single cross-platform GUI toolkit on all developers - a belief that would make you basically insane - the reality is there will always be N different options for cross-platform development, depending on (a) which platforms you intend to cover (b) your own development history (c) subjective preferences (d) specific functionality that may be limited to specific toolkits.

Does it matter if N is 10 instead of (say) 5 ? I don't know.

Does it matter if the N is segmented into "derived from 90s widget models" versus "derived from 2010's web models" ? I don't know.

Is there any chance of a single toolkit that covers native desktop environments (which continue to be important for creative apps, high performance apps, browsers etc.), native mobile and browser based apps? I don't know, but it seems ... unlikely.

Re: Stop Building Closed Ecosystems

#10
I feel these complaints are misguided. If anybody thinks an Apple II was the good old days should lose their mind with this computer.

https://www.analog.com/en/products/max78000.html#product-ove...

This has all the freedom one could need and amazing computing power. If one needs a non-propriety way to reach iOS users use a webpage.

Nobody is stopping anyone from making the next big thing.

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