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Dreams are the default for intelligence

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Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#61

Post by smusamashah »

godshatter wrote: post #37
idleproc wrote: post #12

I read a book about lucid dreaming a while back, and it said something like: the easiest way to tell you are in a dream is to look at something mechanical or complicated. The idea seemed to be: if you could get your dreaming mind to look at your hand and then turn it over to the other side, you didn't have the mental 'bandwidth' to imagine the opposite side correctly, and you'd realize you were dreaming. Equally, if…

I used to lucid dream regularly (need to get back to it - it's a lot of fun). I used a reality check where I would try to (lightly) blow air through my nose when my hand was closing it off. If I could I was dreaming. I did this randomly during my waking hours every so often when I had some indication that something was different and I needed to test reality. Whenever I would come semi-aware when I was dreaming I woul…

It's amazing how casual the weirdest things are in dreams. For example my wife had a dream where an old women was sitting on stairs, she folded herself, became a hand, which climbed the stairs and disappeared. And it was OK but just weird enough to remember.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#62

Post by PoignardAzur »

robot_no_421 wrote: post #14
idleproc wrote: post #12

I read a book about lucid dreaming a while back, and it said something like: the easiest way to tell you are in a dream is to look at something mechanical or complicated. The idea seemed to be: if you could get your dreaming mind to look at your hand and then turn it over to the other side, you didn't have the mental 'bandwidth' to imagine the opposite side correctly, and you'd realize you were dreaming. Equally, if…

Another way to tell is to try to read things or look at a clock/numbers in your dream. Often time the information will not make sense, and will change if you look away and back. I've done this myself once or twice in a dream and I actually was able to tell I was dreaming but the shock of my realization woke me up.

> Often time the information will not make sense, and will change if you look away and back.

Yeah, I've done that a few times and it's been reliable for me.

One time I remember, I was absolutely sure I was awake, so I did the "reading text" test, I read something, looked at something else, then read the thing again, they went "Wait, those aren't the same words. Ah, crap."

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#63

Post by wodenokoto »

idleproc wrote: post #12

I read a book about lucid dreaming a while back, and it said something like: the easiest way to tell you are in a dream is to look at something mechanical or complicated. The idea seemed to be: if you could get your dreaming mind to look at your hand and then turn it over to the other side, you didn't have the mental 'bandwidth' to imagine the opposite side correctly, and you'd realize you were dreaming. Equally, if…

It’s a first step for sure.

Look at the time or look at letters. They are all fractal gibberish if you look at them closely during dreaming.

But that might just be part of the dream.

I’ve more than once floated into letters that would reveal more and more shapes just like zooming animations of fractals. But it hasn’t caused me to realize it was a dream, let alone take control of it.

Lots of crazy and spacey things happens in dreams, that you just accept.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#64

Post by MacsHeadroom »

gabereiser wrote: post #31
felipemnoa wrote: post #26

Hehe. I actually had a thought around the same lines a few days ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35516757 And what probably gives us awareness or consciousness is the multiple GPT like structures running in parallel. It really does make me wonder if we are really close to true AGI. It does feel like it. Very exciting times! Just hope we don't end up doing a Terminator.

Oddly enough, we've been saying that since... The Terminator. NN's and LLM's are cool but not even close to the power of the human brain (maybe quantum llm's?). I'm keen to see how we can tap into our own minds as CPU's or at least drivers thereof. Consciousness is awareness and perception so one could say we are close to a rudimentary consciousness but we have a long way to go before it's aware. Still, even though w…

> LLM's are cool but not even close to the power of the human brain

There are only 20 Billion Neurons in the Neocortex. GPT-3 has 175 Billion. GPT-4 scores 130 on IQ tests. They are absolutely in the realm of the power of human brains. They're just exposed to different stimuli and have very narrow input/output.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#65

Post by alpaca128 »

crooked-v wrote: post #7

This also reminds me of some theories I've seen that sleep (e.g. mostly sessile behavior) is the biological default for Earth life, and being "awake" and highly mobile is itself a specialized adaptation.

I see a few problems with that. For example that we can freely act and think in reality but cannot in (non-lucid) dreams. Things like meditation seem more convincing.

Though it is an interesting thought experiment, which implies that we evolved much farther than necessary for dreaming simply because the environment outside dreams as an energy source is so competitive, to a point we're now able to create different kinds of alternate realities as well. Which as so often leads to questions like the purpose of our existence.

To me the idea that dreams exist in order to let the brain filter out unimportant experiences from the day before - or highlight important ones - seems more plausible, especially considering sleep deprivation can lead to hallucinations and more, I don't think this can be explained purely with other processes like the self-cleaning mechanisms of the brain during sleep.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#66

Post by pengaru »

jiggawatts wrote: post #56
pengaru wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I switched from taking a lions mane supplement in capsule form to mixing some powder into my morning tea, since I can get the powder for far less $$ and it's usda organic on top of it. For some reason this has resulted in persistent lucid dreaming before waking up, daily, for over a month now. The capsules rarely caused this, but something about the tea seems to be affecting the bio-availability, or maybe th…

"Some powder"? So... you either don't know what you're taking, or don't want to say in a public forum?

It was meant as a non-specific quantity appropriate for adding to tea, of the same material in powdered form.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#67

Post by rufus_foreman »

idleproc wrote: post #12

I read a book about lucid dreaming a while back, and it said something like: the easiest way to tell you are in a dream is to look at something mechanical or complicated. The idea seemed to be: if you could get your dreaming mind to look at your hand and then turn it over to the other side, you didn't have the mental 'bandwidth' to imagine the opposite side correctly, and you'd realize you were dreaming. Equally, if…

The technique a few people mentioned of looking at words or writing and then looking away and looking back is pretty effective for me. You would have to have some reason to suspect you were dreaming first.

I can do it, I first figured it out when I was 6 or 7, but why? Might be better to just get some sleep.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#68

Post by Teever »

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #64
gabereiser wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly enough, we've been saying that since... The Terminator. NN's and LLM's are cool but not even close to the power of the human brain (maybe quantum llm's?). I'm keen to see how we can tap into our own minds as CPU's or at least drivers thereof. Consciousness is awareness and perception so one could say we are close to a rudimentary consciousness but we have a long way to go before it's aware. Still, even though w…

> LLM's are cool but not even close to the power of the human brain There are only 20 Billion Neurons in the Neocortex. GPT-3 has 175 Billion. GPT-4 scores 130 on IQ tests. They are absolutely in the realm of the power of human brains. They're just exposed to different stimuli and have very narrow input/output.

organic neurons are much more complex than simulated neurons.

It's more accurate to look at an organic neuron as an entire computing device than a simple transistor.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#69

Post by lucas_membrane »

refset wrote: post #43
kgwxd wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually become highly aware I’m dreaming when I’m able to kind of float around (not fly, more like low gravity mixed with a near-floor hovering) but the “wow” of it turns into “this is just reality, no big deal” so fast I never get a chance to try to consciously shape the dream.

I can relate heavily. The recurring ability to hover by kicking my legs around is profoundly liberating and a deeply familiar sensation at this point. Dreams feel like living a parallel life :)

The ability to levitate in dreams is very useful, because dreams typically are unable to make your legs actually move. Thus, the feeling of walking is not easily fantasized realistically, and immobility of the main character is not something that many the unpaid screenwriter will refuse to take lying down.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#70

Post by lucas_membrane »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #67
idleproc wrote: post #12

I read a book about lucid dreaming a while back, and it said something like: the easiest way to tell you are in a dream is to look at something mechanical or complicated. The idea seemed to be: if you could get your dreaming mind to look at your hand and then turn it over to the other side, you didn't have the mental 'bandwidth' to imagine the opposite side correctly, and you'd realize you were dreaming. Equally, if…

The technique a few people mentioned of looking at words or writing and then looking away and looking back is pretty effective for me. You would have to have some reason to suspect you were dreaming first. I can do it, I first figured it out when I was 6 or 7, but why? Might be better to just get some sleep.

Just a few nights I had such happen during a dream in which I was playing cards with three or for opponents. I was counting the cards played, and I realized that I had played a card that I had not been dealt. Refusing to believe that I was cheating, I deduced that I were dreaming and awoke at once. But I cannot explain the stack of chips that I found on my night table.
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