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Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

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51–60 of 235 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#51
Because the UX of that would be terrible and nobody would buy the product and they would go out of business. Best case only people who wanted to learn programming would use the weird nerdy programming phone.

Why aren't AAA games running on text based interactive fiction engines? Because for the target market, that's crap.

Most people do not want to learn programming. I know, it's a horrible thought, but it is what it is.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote myself with emphasis added, "Something akin to hypercard could be made to work ." So something like hypercard but not hypercard and reworked to the strengths of a smartphones interface.

Alright, I agree. Not easy to come up with the akin though.

Hypercard could be reworked without the drag and drop, double tap or long press pops up a menu, select what you need from the menu. It would work like every other phone app and leverage the other apps which come stock, want to place a picture than double tap to get the menu, click add image and it opens your gallery app and lets you select a picture and do basic editing, click done and the image is placed. And I can think of dozens of ways to extend the hypercard idea based off what a smartphone offers.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#54
Profit motive as the only motive, combined with scale, mostly, with a side of "freedom helps bad people do bad things" variations.

ex: In many respects there is vastly more effort involved in making them general purpose computing devices. Why harm profits catering to people who want that when the crushingly vast majority don't want it, when they can't be trusted to use it (directly or indirectly) without messing something up (harming profit via support costs), and when they aren't able to prevent bad actors from misusing it and harming them (again harming profits)?

ex: Why do game developers skip story? Because 90% of the market doesn't care about it. Why do movie studios crank out films with garbage stories/plot? Because 90% of the market doesn't care about it. As long as people and therefore companies believe that generating revenue is the only thing that matters, this results.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#55
Form factor and mobile devices aside (there are already plenty of good comments on that), I simply don't see any eligible programming language for this. I.e, something that can be learned in an afternoon or two, a single loop construct, simple variable management etc. Much like JavaScript used to be in the 1990s (up to including ES3.) Modern languages are just too much tailored towards software engineering, IDEs and static analysis, have multiple redundant layers of syntax and semantic sugar, and, even if you have managed this, the core language takes you nowhere as the meat is in APIs and/or frameworks. In other words, we may need a simple language that is more on the art than on the engineering side of programming, in order to be accessible for fun activities and exploration.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#57
post #28
post #5

I'd argue that a mobile phone is not an adequate platform for coding. The touchscreen and keyboard layouts make it difficult to type needed symbols, distracting from the problem at hand. Coding requires deep thought, but phones are optimized for moving around rather than sitting in one place and thinking. As such, use cases like maps, calendars, communication and alarms get priority. The reason people buy a phone is…

As someone who has done a non-trivial amount of coding work directly on my phone, I'll say you just get good at being able to type the symbols you need (though I agree it isn't great; but like, that's what BASIC is for, and I certainly spent a ton of time coding BASIC on my old TI calculators ;P). I also frankly find my phone to be an extremely pleasant device to "sit in one place and think", and given how many games…

I've seen the youth doing this nowadays.

But just watching it causes severe physical pain in me. Everything is awkward, and painful slow. In the time you would have written a page of code on a desktop in an IDE you hardly manage to write a few lines of working code on a phone. Alone the fact that you can't use keyboard shortcuts efficiently is more than crippling! Not to mention the extremely tiny screen on a phone. On a desktop you have for serous work 2, or better 3 screens (or some big wide one), for a reason.

And regarding deep thinking: The best setting for that is imho not the desktop, nor the bed. Best for thinking is actually walking around, while not being distracted by anything else.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#58
I dont think it is anything about Smartphone. It is about the software / technology today, or Abstractions.

In the 80s and 90s. One could still have a very high level understanding of every single part of the computer. From Hardware to Software. The whole stack.

We now have a whole generation of programmers who dont understand a thing about Hardware. Not even enthusiast level. Nor do they understand anything beyond their domain within Software.

The bar is also a lot higher, when basic graphics and UI luxury and command line is still acceptable. You could quickly make a script to do something you want.

And then there is a whole generation of I would argue needless complexity added on top of complexity. Take Web development for example. CGI or PHP used to be Simple. It wasn't easy, but it was simple. I dont know where to begin to describe in today's web dev.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't smartphones encourage programming like early 80s computers?

#60
There's nothing stopping you from downloading Android development tools, and programming away to your heart's content.

And nothing stopping you from pushing your app to Google Play so all your friends can download it onto their phones.

Probably the major reason why early 80's computers made basic so prominent is that there wasn't much else to do with them.

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