Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 126 posts

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#11

Post by tuukkah »

DrBazza wrote: post #7
leipert wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair: Merkel (so conservatives and liberals) made the decision in 2011 after Fukushima in a move to align with popular sentiment.

Unfortunately popular sentiment doesn't equate to scientific fact. Nuclear power is cleaner, safer and less environmentally damaging than fossil fuels in every way. Still, since when have politicians ever let facts get in the way of campaigning for power?

We are not choosing between nuclear and fossils - we have chosen renewables.

Clarification: I'm not German. I'm talking globally and long term. What's happening right now in Germany is just a blip. The big picture:

> Clean power growth is likely to exceed electricity demand growth in 2023; this would be the first year for this to happen outside of a recession. With average growth in electricity demand and clean power, we forecast that 2023 will see a small fall in fossil generation (-47 TWh, -0.3%), with bigger falls in subsequent years as wind and solar grow further. That would mean 2022 hit “peak” emissions. A new era of falling power sector emissions is close.

https://ember-climate.org/insights/research/global-electrici...

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#14

Post by HyperSane »

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2022/10/28/the-iron...

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced that Germany was reopening five power plants that burn lignite, a low-rank coal. Germany’s return to lignite demonstrates, yet again, the Iron Law of Electricity, which says that people, businesses, and governments will do whatever they have to do to get the electricity they need.

Indeed, Germany’s move back to lignite is chock-full of contradictions, including one that belongs in the “you can’t make this up” column.

The Iron Law of Electricity is so powerful that the utility RWE is dismantling the Keyenberg wind project in the western part of the country to, wait for it... make more room for the expansion of the Garzweiler mine. Lignite from Garzweiler fuels the Neurath C power plant, which is one of the power plants being brought back online. A spokesperson for RWE told the Guardian newspaper that “We realize this comes across as paradoxical.”

Yes, there are paradoxes aplenty. Germany’s need to keep the lights on explains why the government is willing to ignore the fact that burning lignite to produce electricity emits more carbon dioxide than any other form of power generation.

Furthermore, burning lignite contradicts Germany’s climate goals. Under the country’s much-vaunted Energiewende (German for “energy turnaround”) Germany has pledged to slash its total greenhouse gas emissions by 95% by 2050. The cost of that pledge could total more than $500 billion by 2025 — and that figure only accounts for the investment needed to decarbonize the electricity sector. The result of all that spending is that residents of Germany are now paying some of the highest electricity prices in Europe.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#16

Post by HyperSane »

leipert wrote: post #4
nixass wrote: post #2

Germany be like - let's do exactly opposite of what makes sense in today's world Green party is really ruining and I'm amazed people still give them votes

To be fair: Merkel (so conservatives and liberals) made the decision in 2011 after Fukushima in a move to align with popular sentiment.

Too bad the populous are idiots.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#17

Post by pantalaimon »

tuukkah wrote: post #11
DrBazza wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately popular sentiment doesn't equate to scientific fact. Nuclear power is cleaner, safer and less environmentally damaging than fossil fuels in every way. Still, since when have politicians ever let facts get in the way of campaigning for power?

We are not choosing between nuclear and fossils - we have chosen renewables. Clarification: I'm not German. I'm talking globally and long term. What's happening right now in Germany is just a blip. The big picture: > Clean power growth is likely to exceed electricity demand growth in 2023; this would be the first year for this to happen outside of a recession. With average growth in electricity demand and clean power…

Still coal fired plants are supposed to run until 2038

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#18

Post by HyperSane »

tuukkah wrote: post #11
DrBazza wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately popular sentiment doesn't equate to scientific fact. Nuclear power is cleaner, safer and less environmentally damaging than fossil fuels in every way. Still, since when have politicians ever let facts get in the way of campaigning for power?

We are not choosing between nuclear and fossils - we have chosen renewables. Clarification: I'm not German. I'm talking globally and long term. What's happening right now in Germany is just a blip. The big picture: > Clean power growth is likely to exceed electricity demand growth in 2023; this would be the first year for this to happen outside of a recession. With average growth in electricity demand and clean power…

You chose to shut down perfectly working nuclear reactors and keep burning coal. You COULD and SHOULD have replaced coal with nuclear.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2022/10/28/the-iron...

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#19

Post by awaythrow98765 »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #5

What are they gonna use for power?

Currently mostly coal (mostly lignite) with a little imported LNG for base load and peaks. Wind and solar if available. Rest is imported nuclear, coal and other power from neighboring countries.

Longer term, a switch to 100% renewables is planned, which is supposed to take 20 years. However, plans are coming along too slowly, especially regarding storage and transmission lines. But also necessary ramp-up of wind and solar installations is extremely lacking. Meanwhile power prices are at an all-time high and no betterment in sight. Meanwhile a switch to mostly-electric transportation, green steel smelting, green concrete production, and mostly electric heating should happen, which will roughly triple electricity consumption overall.

So I guess we'll wait and see, most probably more of the imported whatever-we-can-get at stellar prices.

Re: Germany Quits Nuclear Power, Ending a Decades-Long Struggle

#20

Post by benfortuna »

DrBazza wrote: post #7
leipert wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair: Merkel (so conservatives and liberals) made the decision in 2011 after Fukushima in a move to align with popular sentiment.

Unfortunately popular sentiment doesn't equate to scientific fact. Nuclear power is cleaner, safer and less environmentally damaging than fossil fuels in every way. Still, since when have politicians ever let facts get in the way of campaigning for power?

"Nuclear power is cleaner [..] than fossil fuels in every way."

Actually not every way though.. nuclear waste has to go somewhere.

Post reply on HN