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Surviving Burnout (2015)

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Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#81

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

bruce511 wrote: post #8

>> caring about the results of our actions but having no meaningful control over those outcomes This really dies sum it up in a useful generic way. Ultimately the balance of this sentence will differ from context to context, but the equation ultimately has to balance. Put another way, if you care a lot, but have no agency, then ultimately you will be frustrated. If you care a lot, but have no resources, then again, y…

The good old fashioned Job Resources / Job Demands 2x2 strikes again.

- Low resources * low demands = low motivation + average stress. You don't really give a shit about the job, but it's also not taking a lot out of you either.

- High resources * low demands = high motivation + low stress. The dream!

- High resources * high demands = high motivation + average stress. You've got a lot on your plate - but you also feel well equipped to take it all on. This is a really nice place to be, especially if you're hungry for professional growth.

- Low resources * high demands = Hell. People expect you do build everything from nothing, and nobody's giving you any help at all, and you're bottlenecked by weird insane corporate BS, and on and on and on.

Being at low resources, high demands for too long will lead to burnout. Full stop. If you're there, try to get out. If you're not there, try to stay out.

https://commoncog.com/g/burnout/#the-job-demands-resources-j...

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#82

Post by misja111 »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #81
bruce511 wrote: post #8

>> caring about the results of our actions but having no meaningful control over those outcomes This really dies sum it up in a useful generic way. Ultimately the balance of this sentence will differ from context to context, but the equation ultimately has to balance. Put another way, if you care a lot, but have no agency, then ultimately you will be frustrated. If you care a lot, but have no resources, then again, y…

The good old fashioned Job Resources / Job Demands 2x2 strikes again. - Low resources * low demands = low motivation + average stress. You don't really give a shit about the job, but it's also not taking a lot out of you either. - High resources * low demands = high motivation + low stress. The dream! - High resources * high demands = high motivation + average stress. You've got a lot on your plate - but you also fee…

> High resources * low demands = high motivation + low stress. The dream!

I disagree with that. High resources * high demands is the dream for many people including myself. Low demands -> low motivation, at least for most people. Having a stress free job with low motivation for a long time can even lead to burnout!

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#83

Post by slagorfotrest »

gedy wrote: post #46
slagorfotrest wrote: post #39

Throwaway Ive been on leave from work due to severe burnout and even just reading this caused me to feel panic. It's this weird feeling where the back of my throat feels like it's closing, my head begins throbbing and my heart races. I know how seriously burnout can affect your life and I'm really glad the author found a way out. We need better options for dealing with burnout because having medical insurance tied to…

Can certainly be triggered by work or burnout, but this sounds like anxiety and panic attacks. Take care of yourself, as have had this happen even when work wasn't that stressful.

I'm getting professional help, thanks for your concern. The cost of that help is what made me realize one of the downside of employer sponsored health insurance

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#84

Post by throw888777 »

Here's my advice based on my personal experience with burnout. It's all easier said than done, I'm afraid.

1) People are part of the problem. You solve problems for customers with technical solutions, but your solutions should take into account people in the company. e.g. "how do I solve problem X with a manager that won't listen?" Other people are not a mysterious outside factor, they are a piece of the puzzle that needs to be put together.

2) Ignore your reputation. Do not base your self-worth on the opinion of others. You want to do good work, of course, but often your idea of good work is not what is wanted by the company. They want features, not pretty code. They are often too short-sighted to see the problems they are creating for themselves with this attitude. You must come to accept this.

3) You don't own your work. You must be mercenary. You are paid for your skills but the output is not yours. You will naturally have a sense of ownership over the the work you do. You will want to protect it because your sense of self-worth is linked to the quality of your work. Sever this link.

4) You don't own the company's problems. You must be mercenary. Companies are dysfunctional. They will be short-sighted. They will make mistakes you have seen a thousand times before and the end will be completely predictable. Give your advice, watch it get ignored, get paid, and move on.

5) Find something more important to care about than some stupid tech product. P.S. It's not going to make the world a better place. Quite the opposite if you look at previous evidence.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#85

Post by yxhuvud »

MrDresden wrote: post #68

I have recently progressed out of a burnout state, which started just before covid hit and continued until early this year. I was lucky enough to be able to take all of last year off from work to focus on my mental and physical health. It is probably dependant on people (and ofcourse their situation), but when I see someone talking about overcoming burnout by taking a month off I can't help wonder if they are dilutin…

Yeah. I'd classify a month as vacation. I was out of commission for three quarters when it happened to me and I'm not certain that was enough.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#86

Post by avnfish »

MrDresden wrote: post #68

I have recently progressed out of a burnout state, which started just before covid hit and continued until early this year. I was lucky enough to be able to take all of last year off from work to focus on my mental and physical health. It is probably dependant on people (and ofcourse their situation), but when I see someone talking about overcoming burnout by taking a month off I can't help wonder if they are dilutin…

My timelines are basically the same as yours, which is reassuring because often articles talk about timelines that are measured in months rather than years

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#87

Post by yunohn »

dilyevsky wrote: post #29
yunohn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imo it would have very limited utility for the company Could you expand on this?

I'm thinking small gains in performance for executive/sales/trader-type roles could lead to disproportional gains for the business (big deals, trades, etc). For engineers and similar type roles what are you going to write couple thousand more lines of javascript a month?

> what are you going to write couple thousand more lines of javascript a month

I think this code-only mentality is what will replace engineers with chatGPT.

We need to understand the business, make high level decisions, coordinate across functions - all are crucial to the outcome of our work. It’s not just managerial types that need to do this, so we could all benefit from some coaching and help.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#88

Post by avnfish »

notimetorelax wrote: post #10

Does anyone have an advice for those who stay employed by a megacorp? I’m on a vacation this week and have just realized that I was effectively in isolation outside of my work.

Megacorps can be made to work for you (albeit with a certain set of tradeoffs):

* milk the wellness benefits as much as possible - including any therapy cover

* look at leave of absence / sick leave (larger corps are better able to accommodate)

* transfer to a better team

* adjust your hours downwards either explicitly or tacitly

Megacorps aren't great at the whole empowerment and outcome control thing, but you can at least use the benefits to recover and then maybe move to something more meaningful

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#89

Post by GrigoriyMikh »

jimnotgym wrote: post #44
slagorfotrest wrote: post #39

Throwaway Ive been on leave from work due to severe burnout and even just reading this caused me to feel panic. It's this weird feeling where the back of my throat feels like it's closing, my head begins throbbing and my heart races. I know how seriously burnout can affect your life and I'm really glad the author found a way out. We need better options for dealing with burnout because having medical insurance tied to…

> because having medical insurance tied to work is obviously suboptimal. That is a solved problem in many countries. When the US grows up from its individual first, frontier moxie, pissing context it could have it too.

> That is a solved problem in many countries.

No, it's not. Especially for cases, when the worker is a migrant from another country. I spent 3+ years of my life working in the country, paying huge taxes and huge healthcare insurance fee(which depends on your salary). And now i'm on the verge when i either work or leave to my home country(with a lots of problems). Despite contributing hugely to this country.

Concepts of countries and borders in itself is unfair to majority of people, who happened to be born in shitholes. Yet westerners just love to exploit these people to death, holding the carrot on the stick in front of their weary faces.

Re: Surviving Burnout (2015)

#90

Post by tpoacher »

bruce511 wrote: post #8

>> caring about the results of our actions but having no meaningful control over those outcomes This really dies sum it up in a useful generic way. Ultimately the balance of this sentence will differ from context to context, but the equation ultimately has to balance. Put another way, if you care a lot, but have no agency, then ultimately you will be frustrated. If you care a lot, but have no resources, then again, y…

I agree, except the "match your care to your resources" sounds like a bad recipe to me. I don't think it's possible to control how much you 'care' about something; only how much you act upon it.

It sounds a bit like saying "don't love the other person too much". You can try to be more measured in your displays of affection if you think it may scare the other person away, but you're either in love with someone or you're not; "how much" in love you get to be isn't really a conscious decision. And unreciprocated love can lead to relationship burnout in the same way.

So if deep down you care about something but try to consciously "match your care to available resources", it's probably going to lead to more burnout too, not less.

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