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GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

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Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#101

Post by MBCook »

tnel77 wrote: post #39
mlsu wrote: post #32

How does this business decision make sense? A car is a high-margin item, so the impact of even a handful of consumers choosing not to buy must be huge, right? Whereas, they would need to "monetize" (ugh) many many more units to turn back that lost profit. And as the shakeup due to EVs begins, even loyal consumers will be considering other makes. My girlfriend bought a car recently. CarPlay was not negotiable for her,…

I personally love CarPlay. A requirement for my next vehicle is wireless CarPlay, and I will not even begin to consider it if it does not have that. Some people want ventilated seats or a V8. I want CarPlay. I think this is a very silly move by GM that they will quickly reverse.

I love CarPlay but I’ve given up on wireless. The idea seems nice, but in practice I have two issues.

First CarPlay just takes a fair amount of power so you’re going to notice it’s effect on battery life.

Second is the audio playback lag. I can’t stand it. It feels like seconds (though maybe it’s not that bad). The interface is ok but hitting pause or play or next track takes noticeable time to happen.

I’ve only ever tried it in my car. Maybe it’s fine in other vehicles. But it’s useless to me. It’s extremely responsive when connected by cable, so I just ended up going back to plugging in.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#102

Post by tptacek »

yyyk wrote: post #99
tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Role play: I'm a car manufacturer, driving 20-40 billion dollars per quarter in revenue. Why am I using a "open protocol" for anything? Pitch me!

You're a car manufacturer, you suck at software. Right now, it's mainly a cost center for you. There are two options that may be preferable: 1. Bail out of infotainment and let others deal with the software, that way at least you aren't paying for this. If you go for an open source/standard, maybe you can commoditize your complement. 2. Monetize it somehow, with the (dis)advantage of owning your stack as much as poss…

Option 3 is that Google and Apple pay me to take care of this problem. Why wouldn't I just do that?

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#103

Post by yyyk »

tptacek wrote: post #102
yyyk wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a car manufacturer, you suck at software. Right now, it's mainly a cost center for you. There are two options that may be preferable: 1. Bail out of infotainment and let others deal with the software, that way at least you aren't paying for this. If you go for an open source/standard, maybe you can commoditize your complement. 2. Monetize it somehow, with the (dis)advantage of owning your stack as much as poss…

Option 3 is that Google and Apple pay me to take care of this problem. Why wouldn't I just do that?

Are they actually paying? As far as I know, the power in this relationship is the other way around, with the car manufacturer having to pay (to programmers) to build protocol support on their end. Note also what I wrote about AV cars (EDIT: that was an edit a minute or so after, so you may have not noticed).

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#104

Post by Operyl »

LanceH wrote: post #94
kube-system wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After having wireless CarPlay, not sure I can ever go back. It’s really nice to get in the car and just go, and everything from my phone is automatically on the dash and controllable with the car’s native controls. The last thing I want is for my car to be another device with its own subscription, accounts, applications, configuration, etc.

It's a bit of a pain if two people share the car. Even worse if two people share more than one car. There never seems to be an option to force use a specific phone when more than one is possible. They all seem sticky to a phone and it always seems to be the other one. I guess a good thing about carplay is that when traveling with someone else, they can use their phone to update things like maps, and we're not complet…

Toyota's wireless carplay lets you switch in the Settings very quickly (10-15 seconds to get there). So they're not universally bad at least.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#105

Post by MBCook »

maxerickson wrote: post #37
mlsu wrote: post #32

How does this business decision make sense? A car is a high-margin item, so the impact of even a handful of consumers choosing not to buy must be huge, right? Whereas, they would need to "monetize" (ugh) many many more units to turn back that lost profit. And as the shakeup due to EVs begins, even loyal consumers will be considering other makes. My girlfriend bought a car recently. CarPlay was not negotiable for her,…

They may well be more or less production limited on the EVs (not saying that they are, pointing at the possibility). If it actually works good people might not care in the medium term. Generally the problem people have with the automaker systems is that they sucked, not that they weren't CarPlay.

> Generally the problem people have with the automaker systems is that they sucked, not that they weren't CarPlay.

I’m with vineyardmike. The problem was they sucked before CarPlay.

Now that I’ve had a taste of controlling everything my way with my apps based on my preferences in a way I’m used to, I’m not going back.

The best you could offer is perfect integration with my phone and the apps I use. But that will never happen, and at that point I might as well use CarPlay anyway.

Cars need their own system for fallback but it’s a cost center. Don’t try to make it your primary selling point, you can’t win.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#106

Post by MBCook »

autoexec wrote: post #95
mritun wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CarPlay and AndroidAuto don’t give the car any access to the phone data and that’s the “problem” GM seems trying to “fix”. CarPlay and AndroidAuto protocols basically treat car’s display as a remote framebuffer.

> CarPlay and AndroidAuto don’t give the car any access to the phone data Perhaps that's changed. There have been warnings about using AndroidAuto and CarPlay with rental cars for years. Now that cars are increasingly collecting data and sending it home themselves, any info your personal car has collected from your phone or usage can be sent back too. https://www.wgal.com/article/connecting-your-cellphone-to-yo... ht…

I’m not sure CarPlay gives anything.

But every car I’ve hooked CarPlay up to wants to register it with Bluetooth at the same time so it can access my contacts. And that is a risk.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#107

Post by hedora »

criddell wrote: post #61
mlsu wrote: post #32

How does this business decision make sense? A car is a high-margin item, so the impact of even a handful of consumers choosing not to buy must be huge, right? Whereas, they would need to "monetize" (ugh) many many more units to turn back that lost profit. And as the shakeup due to EVs begins, even loyal consumers will be considering other makes. My girlfriend bought a car recently. CarPlay was not negotiable for her,…

GM is expecting $20-25 billion in annual subscription revenue by 2030. Dropping CarPlay and Android Auto will definitely lose them many sales. They are betting the lost sales will be less than the new subscription revenue.

No, you must be mistaken!

Their spokesperson says all their cars come with 8 years of free service!

Unless they’re lying to their customers revenue won’t stop ramping until 2032 or so.

Presumably the SEC filings and investor facing statements they are making are in error instead.

/s

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#108

Post by tommoose »

flatiron wrote: post #57
endperform wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carplay works without an issue for me. I get in my car, plug it in, and it's ready to roll. No need to deal with Bluetooth or the like, it just works. I'm fine with plugging a phone in when I get in, rather than having it in my pocket and possibly falling out without me knowing about it.

I too like CarPlay and see no need for a wireless version. I like to charge my phone. My only gripe is there should be an option to turn off Wi-Fi when you plug into the car. Every time I get in the car, start a song, drive away, 30 seconds of silence while it realizes I can’t get to my Wi-Fi, song is back on. Why would they not have an option to just use cellular in CarPlay mode which is what 99.9% of people do?

I had a similar problem, and solved it with a Shortcut which disables wifi whenever CarPlay is connected, and another to re-enable it when disconnected. Real easy since Shortcuts has built-in triggers for CarPlay.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#109

Post by secstate »

Operyl wrote: post #104
LanceH wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a pain if two people share the car. Even worse if two people share more than one car. There never seems to be an option to force use a specific phone when more than one is possible. They all seem sticky to a phone and it always seems to be the other one. I guess a good thing about carplay is that when traveling with someone else, they can use their phone to update things like maps, and we're not complet…

Toyota's wireless carplay lets you switch in the Settings very quickly (10-15 seconds to get there). So they're not universally bad at least.

10-15 seconds is an eternity. I can switch the bluetooth phone connected in a 10 year old car in 10-15 seconds.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#110

Post by hedora »

majormajor wrote: post #31
mritun wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CarPlay and AndroidAuto don’t give the car any access to the phone data and that’s the “problem” GM seems trying to “fix”. CarPlay and AndroidAuto protocols basically treat car’s display as a remote framebuffer.

There's been some controversy about data collection going the other way the Android side. https://www.motortrend.com/features/13-cool-facts-about-the-... > As part of the agreement an automaker would have to enter with Google, Porsche said certain pieces of data must be collected and transmitted back to Mountain View, California. Stuff like vehicle speed, throttle position, coolant and oil temp, engine revs—basically…

If you care at all about android slurping data from your car, then why are you using that phone in the first place?

It’s already pulling way more information than the car telemetry.

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