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GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

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Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#91

Post by wlesieutre »

jdlyga wrote: post #5

Car infotainment systems are terrible. That's the reason why everyone wants CarPlay and Android Auto. It's kind of like going back to flip phones after using smartphones for years.

Even if the infotainment is good today, GM is basically saying “trust me bro, 10 years from now maps on this decade old hardware are going to be so good you’ll want to pay a subscription for it.” I was thinking an Equinox EV would be my next car, but now I’m looking at gas vehicles and thinking I’ll give EVs a while longer to sort out which manufacturers earn a reputation for EV reliability, longevity, and good software.

It’s a major benefit of CarPlay that you can get new map technology on a new phone. Would Apple Maps of today with its vector data and 3D buildings run on a phone from 2013? Is there any reason to think that whatever system is going into the 2023 Blazer EV won’t be a bad joke by 2033? The maps on my phone will probably be pulling in Apple’s lidar scans for very precise local road data.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#92

Post by hamburglar »

criddell wrote: post #61
mlsu wrote: post #32

How does this business decision make sense? A car is a high-margin item, so the impact of even a handful of consumers choosing not to buy must be huge, right? Whereas, they would need to "monetize" (ugh) many many more units to turn back that lost profit. And as the shakeup due to EVs begins, even loyal consumers will be considering other makes. My girlfriend bought a car recently. CarPlay was not negotiable for her,…

GM is expecting $20-25 billion in annual subscription revenue by 2030. Dropping CarPlay and Android Auto will definitely lose them many sales. They are betting the lost sales will be less than the new subscription revenue.

This sounds a little like designing their cars to only work with a proprietary formulation of gasoline and “expecting” to automatically capture all the revenue that third party gas stations are making right now.

Consumers aren’t stupid enough to think they should be paying subscription fees to GM for infotainment features when they have other, often free, options.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#93

Post by bigmattystyles »

function_seven wrote: post #68
criddell wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM is expecting $20-25 billion in annual subscription revenue by 2030. Dropping CarPlay and Android Auto will definitely lose them many sales. They are betting the lost sales will be less than the new subscription revenue.

Yeah I think they’re fever dreaming at those recurring revenue projections. Ditching the phone integrations will have them selecting for buyers who don’t care about the Infotainment Experience (ugh), either because they just want the basics, or they can’t afford to be picky or whatever. Then they imagine that these buyers—who didn’t care enough about the big screen in the dash to include it in their buying decision—w…

You say fever dream, I say business consultant getting paid big bucks to present and run focus groups for an idea that doesn’t pass the smell test. Seriously though, car company made infotainment systems are the biggest reason they shouldn’t be trusted with more life or death software like self driving. They’re all atrocious.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#94

Post by LanceH »

kube-system wrote: post #58
tnel77 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally love CarPlay. A requirement for my next vehicle is wireless CarPlay, and I will not even begin to consider it if it does not have that. Some people want ventilated seats or a V8. I want CarPlay. I think this is a very silly move by GM that they will quickly reverse.

After having wireless CarPlay, not sure I can ever go back. It’s really nice to get in the car and just go, and everything from my phone is automatically on the dash and controllable with the car’s native controls. The last thing I want is for my car to be another device with its own subscription, accounts, applications, configuration, etc.

It's a bit of a pain if two people share the car. Even worse if two people share more than one car. There never seems to be an option to force use a specific phone when more than one is possible. They all seem sticky to a phone and it always seems to be the other one.

I guess a good thing about carplay is that when traveling with someone else, they can use their phone to update things like maps, and we're not completely locked out of it until we come to a stop.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#95

Post by autoexec »

mritun wrote: post #19
autoexec wrote: post #3

Personally, I wont ever connect my phone to my car at all (if my next car doesn't have an aux port I'll install one myself), but I have to assume that GM is doing this because their own software siphons more data off of our devices than even carplay or andriod auto does. > "GM is looking to monetize more software and services within its vehicles and is taking a page out of Tesla’s playbook," Since they're only doing…

CarPlay and AndroidAuto don’t give the car any access to the phone data and that’s the “problem” GM seems trying to “fix”. CarPlay and AndroidAuto protocols basically treat car’s display as a remote framebuffer.

> CarPlay and AndroidAuto don’t give the car any access to the phone data

Perhaps that's changed. There have been warnings about using AndroidAuto and CarPlay with rental cars for years. Now that cars are increasingly collecting data and sending it home themselves, any info your personal car has collected from your phone or usage can be sent back too.

https://www.wgal.com/article/connecting-your-cellphone-to-yo...

https://www.creativetechs.com/2022/06/24/how-to-safely-use-c...

https://old.reddit.com/r/AndroidAuto/comments/v1z1ru/is_it_g...

For some details see: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9571200/

> In addition, the forensic artifacts acquired in each analysis area show that the forensic artifacts obtainable in IVI systems using Android Auto and Apple CarPlay are not limited to the internal storage in a mobile device. As such, a digital forensic examination of various elements constituting the IVI system is a useful addition to vehicle forensics. An increasing number of people are using Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, and more vehicles and manufacturers are sup-porting these systems. The proposed forensic methodology and the acquired artifacts can be applied as an important basis for future vehicle crime investigations.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#96

Post by neogodless »

ghostpepper wrote: post #82
jacobsenscott wrote: post #38

Android auto and car play are both really bad user experiences. They are just better than what most car companies can build, which is a very low bar. Here's the android auto experience: Take my phone out of my pocket (not that easy when you are already sitting...), turn on bluetooth (I often have it off because it grabs my headphones etc when I don't want it to) and connecting it to usb (where'd the damn cable go? An…

Why do you need a cable _and_ bluetooth?

At least for Android Auto this was necessary before the wireless version became popular. Data over the cable but audio was still done via Bluetooth. At least in my "older" car.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#97

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

ghostpepper wrote: post #79
lotsofpulp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also trust Carplay and Android Auto security since no data is sent out of the phone.

Are you sure about this? I seem to remember connecting my iPhone to a rental car and realizing that it had transferred my contact list into the car somehow.

My iPhone has asked me before if I want to give my contacts to a car, it’s never done it unless I said yes.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#98

Post by Axien »

ghostpepper wrote: post #79
lotsofpulp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also trust Carplay and Android Auto security since no data is sent out of the phone.

Are you sure about this? I seem to remember connecting my iPhone to a rental car and realizing that it had transferred my contact list into the car somehow.

That is a Bluetooth feature.

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#99

Post by yyyk »

tptacek wrote: post #76
exabrial wrote: post #12

The better option is: remove infotainment completely and _require_ a smartphone for anything other than FM/AM radio. * Support an open protocol for rendering images/video/animations on the screen. Sorta like... you know, CarPlay. * Have controls for what events are allowed to be sent to the connected device. Don't want your phone to know your Throttle Position? Turn that shit off. Don't want your phone to know whethe…

Role play: I'm a car manufacturer, driving 20-40 billion dollars per quarter in revenue. Why am I using a "open protocol" for anything? Pitch me!

You're a car manufacturer, you suck at software. Right now, it's mainly a cost center for you. There are two options that may be preferable:

1. Bail out of infotainment and let others deal with the software, that way at least you aren't paying for this. If you go for an open source/standard, maybe you can commoditize your complement.

2. Monetize it somehow, with the (dis)advantage of owning your stack as much as possible.

OP suggests (1). GM is choosing (2). Either makes a bit more sense for car manufacturers than the current situation, if they don't worry too much about losing customers while they make the transition, and if they can do (2) without sucking too much.

Another thing to note is that when AV cars arrive, the user (former driver) will have a lot more time for infotainment. It's possible that differentiation will more strongly select for these types of features. So again you have the options of bailing out/doing it yourself. The current situation: Letting Google/Apple own much of the stack is the worst for you, since these companies may prefer their own cars (there are persistent rumors of an Apple car, Google is known for Waymo).

Re: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

#100

Post by hedora »

prepend wrote: post #69
mlsu wrote: post #32

How does this business decision make sense? A car is a high-margin item, so the impact of even a handful of consumers choosing not to buy must be huge, right? Whereas, they would need to "monetize" (ugh) many many more units to turn back that lost profit. And as the shakeup due to EVs begins, even loyal consumers will be considering other makes. My girlfriend bought a car recently. CarPlay was not negotiable for her,…

I’m guessing that Google is willing to do a revenue share with GM from the data. And apple doesn’t do that. So some dork at GM figured they can increase revenue with their own special system. GM has a history of stupid decisions trying to get service revenue from cars. I remember on Star and it was so dumb that they wanted me to lay $40/month for concierge service or something.

They still have onStar and push it despite all reason. I drove a 2023 chevy bolt recently, and couldn’t figure out how to get the nav software to render a map.

All the buttons in the UI just initiated phone calls with someone (something?), so I hung up and switched to carplay.

It is a shame that the onboard nav is busted. My old BMW EV has extremely good range predictions, etc., and my phone does not even attempt such things.

I’m not switching to Google’s ecosystem, so I guess I’ll just never buy a GM moving forward.

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