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Killing sparrows led to famines in China

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Re: Killing sparrows led to famines in China

#111
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Disgusting Yes, but effective. Manifest some destiny. Future generations reap reward. All of sudden it's 5% bad and 95% good. Maybe 10% bad and 90% good during periods of introspection. The sins of founding father(s) are easy to cleanse.

You can commit atrocious evil without reaping rewards. It is extremely doubtful that Mao contributed any good. Read any book like Mao’s Great Famine or any other book detailing Maos life and exploits. He was a psychopath who refused to admit he did anything wrong. He was also an ephebophile, sleeping with girls as young as 14. Did that contribute any good?

And founding fathers owned slaves. Mao commit atrocious evil in service of greater eventual good and be acknowledged for it. Celebrated even. National history does a tally of net achievements where personal evil/vice like diddling kids and owning people has never been a deal breaker, even less so for founders.

Agenda driven Mao books don't highlight how Great Leap Foreward and Cultural Revolution both indispensible net good for PRC state building by actual relevant metrics. In 1980s Worldbank summary of PRC progress from post WW2 to 1970s (significantly overlapping Mao's reign) concluded relative to low-income peers PRC was significantly more industrialized - national production share 35/40/25 in agriculture/industry/services vs 40/25/40 average in low income bracket. 40 industrial share around middle income levels, supported via higher per capita energy consumption i.e. 3x India). State provided services were also assessed to be far more effective in meeting basic needs vs low income counterparts, with life expectancy in mid ~65 vs 50 for low income. PRC's 65, was again high end of middle income despite being PRC growing from low income. That's +10 bonus years x 900M lives. WB remark was "outstandingly high" and PRC's "most remarkable achievement during the past three decades". Meanwhile Mao bios: he slept with teens, GLF, CR bad. Mao trading lives in the 50s to front load industrialization/workforce development, and then drag masses into modernity by beating out the 4 olds was excessively executed, but not wrong. Right enough that it's better to be overzealous than conservative/not at all. Again, see India. The ledger on Mao doing net good is pretty clear to me - significantly more good than most other leaders who nation build in other low income countries fraction the size of PRC with better starting and operating conditions. Maybe Mao's an unrepentant psychopath, but nobel prizes have given to people whose done less.

IMO Mao is "successful" BECAUSE he's a psychopath. Like he's not a great statesmen - a great statesment would still want to industrialize and normalize culture like Mao, but they'd opt for the peaceful, 50+ year marathon. It takes a psychopath to think, naw, we'll sprint it in half and deal with the bodies. And use that psychopath energy to new regime in line to execute vision. Utlimately, it worked out, and ironically why he's bad statesmen = great founder.

Re: Killing sparrows led to famines in China

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can commit atrocious evil without reaping rewards. It is extremely doubtful that Mao contributed any good. Read any book like Mao’s Great Famine or any other book detailing Maos life and exploits. He was a psychopath who refused to admit he did anything wrong. He was also an ephebophile, sleeping with girls as young as 14. Did that contribute any good?

And founding fathers owned slaves. Mao commit atrocious evil in service of greater eventual good and be acknowledged for it. Celebrated even. National history does a tally of net achievements where personal evil/vice like diddling kids and owning people has never been a deal breaker, even less so for founders. Agenda driven Mao books don't highlight how Great Leap Foreward and Cultural Revolution both indispensible n…

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Re: Killing sparrows led to famines in China

#113
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Killing off sparrows is only one example of crazy/random/destructive policies that are a regular occurrence under communism. Some others (not in any order): - The USSR sometimes overproduced cigarettes, so ran ad campaigns to convince people to start smoking. - The Holomodor, in which Ukraine was starved by exporting (stealing) all its grain, including the grain needed to plant next season's harvest, and when starvin…

The goals of communism are to resolve class contradictions, which "naturally" happened in the case of feudalism ending. Communist states attempt to accelerate and resolve them through stages. This is where they can seem "unnatural". On the flip side, there may not be anything to inherently prevent capitalism from doing similar things too. The USSR tried to have a much more planned and state managed version of capital…

I'm really not sure that anything in the USSR could be described as capitalism, not even a state managed version of it (which sounds like a contradiction). They really saw capitalism as the enemy and one of Stalin's weird mental hangups was an insistence on seeing Great Britain as the center of global capitalism.

Re: Killing sparrows led to famines in China

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And founding fathers owned slaves. Mao commit atrocious evil in service of greater eventual good and be acknowledged for it. Celebrated even. National history does a tally of net achievements where personal evil/vice like diddling kids and owning people has never been a deal breaker, even less so for founders. Agenda driven Mao books don't highlight how Great Leap Foreward and Cultural Revolution both indispensible n…

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Re: Killing sparrows led to famines in China

#116

This is why I was concerned when I heard Google, of all companies, released lab grown mosquitos to wipe them out. I'm curious what happened with this effort. It's not exactly a vote of confidence when the other guy trying to do this is Bill Gates.

"released lab grown mosquitos to wipe them out" Spoiler alert. We lose fish. All fresh water fish. Not as bad as fucking with bees. But a close second.

bats and birds would suffer also
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