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U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#31

Post by hef19898 »

trifurcate wrote: post #29
LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, because the major service that exchanges provide is to convert between crypto and cash. The tremendous growth seen in the industry over the last few years was fueled by an influx of cash into the crypto markets by way of exchanges. Dealing in cash means managing some sort of bank or brokerage account, which falls under federal purview.

Decentralized exchanges are... exactly not that. They only trade on-chain assets for on-chain assets. Fiat ramps are not part of what makes a decentralized exchange.

Which means those exchanges are, until crypto becomes a mainstream payment method for everyday stuff, completely pointless. And, as a result, crypto as well.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#32

Post by LapsangGuzzler »

alphanullmeric wrote: post #24
jjtheblunt wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Russia has lots of energy, maybe they can use it to settle transactions? Meanwhile Visa keeps on clearing incomparably more (by “several orders of magnitude”) encrypted transactions per second globally for miniscule energy?

Comparing the security of visa transactions to crypto is laughable. The IRS literally had a bounty out for anyone that could trace monero. Meanwhile, seizing money from traditional bank accounts and tracking credit card transactions is an every day chore for the government.

> tracking credit card transactions is an every day chore for the government.

In what sense? Credit card companies manage their own fraud mitigation per federal law, which makes it easy for consumers to dispute transactions. If someone gets my crypto wallet PK and withdraws everything, who do I dispute that with? No way to reverse transactions in BTC.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#33

Post by anonymouskimmer »

kodah wrote: post #25
robcohen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be very surprised if Visa can clear transactions with less energy than Ethereum Proof of Stake requires. https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/ The energy argument is correct for proof of work, not proof of stake.

I don't think energy consumption was ever actually a virtue of the people who complained about it. It was just a means to an end for curbing crypto and it's grifts.

It's why when I first read about crypto back in 2013 or so I thought about getting into Peercoin whenever I had the money to do so. And it's why years later, when I finally had the money to do so, I never bought any crypto, even when FOMO was hitting hard.

It's why I stopped taking late night drives in my car to wind down, instead taking walks. And why I try to drive to maximize fuel efficiency.

It's why I felt guilty every time I flew a plane while a student pilot and never finished a full pilot's license (I never would have started in the first place had I not been pushed to do so by my father).

Yes, some of us care.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#34

Post by [deleted] »

3dfan wrote: post #15

Can't decentralized exchanges be completely anonymous? If a user sends some ETH to an adress and on some Bitcoin address a balance shows up - how would the SEC want to regulate that? Let alone exchanges that are just a contract on Ethereum and only exchange tokens on the Etherum blockchain. What is the SEC going to do about those? And what would happen if some country in the world tokenizes their property. Say a cert…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#35

Post by thisgoesnowhere »

robcohen wrote: post #21
thisgoesnowhere wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit odd to see the comparison of ethereum to YouTube and netflix. What is that supposed to show?

It’s supposed to show relative power consumption. Which it does. What would you like to compare it to?

Other payment networks? Stripe, square, interac?

One is a streaming service and the other is a payment network. It's like comparing a construction site to a restaurant in terms of fuel consumption.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#36

Post by bandrami »

nostrademons wrote: post #18
bobthepanda wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong may not be a great place to invest long term given that China has a far more precarious legal system and is willing to override Hong Kong’s on a whim.

For a technology that seeks to replace the legal & financial system, this is the perfect place to invest. It's like how Uber couldn't have gotten started anywhere other than SF, because the transportation system there is so bad that people will hop into cars with strangers instead. You don't found a startup in places where your competition is strong, you found it in places where it's nonexistent.

> hop into cars with strangers instead

I'm pretty sure every city has taxis?

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#37

Post by crote »

robcohen wrote: post #21
thisgoesnowhere wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit odd to see the comparison of ethereum to YouTube and netflix. What is that supposed to show?

It’s supposed to show relative power consumption. Which it does. What would you like to compare it to?

I could also compare it to the power consumption of the lightbulb in my garage. It is apples-to-oranges to compare a payment network to a video streaming platform, the only useful comparison is to another payment network.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#38

Post by PretzelPirate »

LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #20
monero-xmr wrote: post #2

Meanwhile Hong Kong is rolling out the the red carpet https://www.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-banks-are-netting-cry... The crypto industry is extremely adept at moving across borders, and as power politics between nations dictate different priorities, crypto will make its home base where ever the doors open. Right now China and Russia are in a West vs. East struggle, and anything they can do to reduce the power of the…

After the collapse of Silvergate and Signature, I say “let them have it”. The crypto industry may be adept at moving across borders, but so are seasoned criminals. That shouldn’t automatically qualify them to operate with impunity. Millions of people lost savings in the wake of FTX, and we’re all just supposed to pretend that it was some singular, isolated incident? Their name was on an NBA arena, they spent millions…

> Millions of people lost savings in the wake of FTX,

FTX...which was a regulated exchange in the US and failed because the SEC wasn't regulating.

The issue with expanding the SEC's reach is that they're refusing to do their job and they're asking for more work that they aren't going to do.

Commissioner Hester Peirce has a great statement on this: https://www.sec.gov/news/statement/peirce-rendering-inovatio...

We also see this statement in the article:

> The officials estimated about dozen crypto firms would fall under the expanded definition, but declined to provide any more specifics about which firms.

Which means that the SEC isn't creating clarity about their proposed changes and the effects that they will have. They need to create clarity before asking the public to comment on something.

If the SEC had been doing their job all this time and regulating the industry which they claim falls under their jurisdiction, people probably would have been saved from a lot of scams and loss of assets while still enabling blockchain products to be built by people who enjoy working on them.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#39

Post by oblio »

robcohen wrote: post #11
jjtheblunt wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Russia has lots of energy, maybe they can use it to settle transactions? Meanwhile Visa keeps on clearing incomparably more (by “several orders of magnitude”) encrypted transactions per second globally for miniscule energy?

I’d be very surprised if Visa can clear transactions with less energy than Ethereum Proof of Stake requires. https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/ The energy argument is correct for proof of work, not proof of stake.

There's no world in which a decentralized algorithm is more energy efficient than the equivalent centralized algoritm, all other factors being equal.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#40

Post by trifurcate »

hef19898 wrote: post #31
trifurcate wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralized exchanges are... exactly not that. They only trade on-chain assets for on-chain assets. Fiat ramps are not part of what makes a decentralized exchange.

Which means those exchanges are, until crypto becomes a mainstream payment method for everyday stuff, completely pointless. And, as a result, crypto as well.

> Which means those exchanges are ... completely pointless.

I wonder what entices people to execute hundreds of thousands of trades totaling USD equivalent billions in daily trading volume on these platforms then. Would you say that everyone using these platforms is basically out to scam others or get rich quick?

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