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U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

reuters.com

21–30 of 81 posts

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be very surprised if Visa can clear transactions with less energy than Ethereum Proof of Stake requires. https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/ The energy argument is correct for proof of work, not proof of stake.

Bit odd to see the comparison of ethereum to YouTube and netflix. What is that supposed to show?

It’s supposed to show relative power consumption. Which it does. What would you like to compare it to?

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong may not be a great place to invest long term given that China has a far more precarious legal system and is willing to override Hong Kong’s on a whim.

For a technology that seeks to replace the legal & financial system, this is the perfect place to invest. It's like how Uber couldn't have gotten started anywhere other than SF, because the transportation system there is so bad that people will hop into cars with strangers instead. You don't found a startup in places where your competition is strong, you found it in places where it's nonexistent.

HK is a fairly mature financial sector (HSBC is literally HongKong and Shanghai Banking Corporation) and is also well integrated into both Chinese and international financial systems, I would hardly call the competition “nonexistent.” HKD is probably the largest dollar peg.

The legal system also exists; it’s British-descended common law unless the CCP decides to use its authoritarian instinct.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#23
post #15

Can't decentralized exchanges be completely anonymous? If a user sends some ETH to an adress and on some Bitcoin address a balance shows up - how would the SEC want to regulate that? Let alone exchanges that are just a contract on Ethereum and only exchange tokens on the Etherum blockchain. What is the SEC going to do about those? And what would happen if some country in the world tokenizes their property. Say a cert…

Not really, because the major service that exchanges provide is to convert between crypto and cash. The tremendous growth seen in the industry over the last few years was fueled by an influx of cash into the crypto markets by way of exchanges.

Dealing in cash means managing some sort of bank or brokerage account, which falls under federal purview.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#24

Meanwhile Hong Kong is rolling out the the red carpet https://www.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-banks-are-netting-cry... The crypto industry is extremely adept at moving across borders, and as power politics between nations dictate different priorities, crypto will make its home base where ever the doors open. Right now China and Russia are in a West vs. East struggle, and anything they can do to reduce the power of the…

Since Russia has lots of energy, maybe they can use it to settle transactions? Meanwhile Visa keeps on clearing incomparably more (by “several orders of magnitude”) encrypted transactions per second globally for miniscule energy?

Comparing the security of visa transactions to crypto is laughable. The IRS literally had a bounty out for anyone that could trace monero. Meanwhile, seizing money from traditional bank accounts and tracking credit card transactions is an every day chore for the government.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Russia has lots of energy, maybe they can use it to settle transactions? Meanwhile Visa keeps on clearing incomparably more (by “several orders of magnitude”) encrypted transactions per second globally for miniscule energy?

I’d be very surprised if Visa can clear transactions with less energy than Ethereum Proof of Stake requires. https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/ The energy argument is correct for proof of work, not proof of stake.

I don't think energy consumption was ever actually a virtue of the people who complained about it. It was just a means to an end for curbing crypto and it's grifts.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#26
post #15

Can't decentralized exchanges be completely anonymous? If a user sends some ETH to an adress and on some Bitcoin address a balance shows up - how would the SEC want to regulate that? Let alone exchanges that are just a contract on Ethereum and only exchange tokens on the Etherum blockchain. What is the SEC going to do about those? And what would happen if some country in the world tokenizes their property. Say a cert…

Not really, because the major service that exchanges provide is to convert between crypto and cash. The tremendous growth seen in the industry over the last few years was fueled by an influx of cash into the crypto markets by way of exchanges. Dealing in cash means managing some sort of bank or brokerage account, which falls under federal purview.

DeFi platforms do not deal with cash. Everything has to be on chain.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be very surprised if Visa can clear transactions with less energy than Ethereum Proof of Stake requires. https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/ The energy argument is correct for proof of work, not proof of stake.

I don't think energy consumption was ever actually a virtue of the people who complained about it. It was just a means to an end for curbing crypto and it's grifts.

Yeah it was: the energy cost (as in electric bill) to settle transactions is so large that all but huge transactions are money losers.

Anyway, that was the concern. It contrasts with the fee set by percentage of transaction size used by Visa.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Russia has lots of energy, maybe they can use it to settle transactions? Meanwhile Visa keeps on clearing incomparably more (by “several orders of magnitude”) encrypted transactions per second globally for miniscule energy?

I’d be very surprised if Visa can clear transactions with less energy than Ethereum Proof of Stake requires. https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/ The energy argument is correct for proof of work, not proof of stake.

Everything else held equal it will always take more energy to have multiple computers ready to verify transactions, as well as the computational overhead of determining on the fly which computer actually will verify which transaction, than to have one computer verifying transactions.

From your own link, PoS Ethereum is 1/30,000 the energy cost of PoW Ethereum. From this link (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2203.03717.pdf ), back in 2021 PoW Ethereum spent 125.36 kWh per transaction, while VISA spent 0.0015 kWh, an 83 thousand fold difference. Depending on how these numbers all shake out VISA is still superior to PoS Ethereum by about 2-3X per transaction.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#29
post #15

Can't decentralized exchanges be completely anonymous? If a user sends some ETH to an adress and on some Bitcoin address a balance shows up - how would the SEC want to regulate that? Let alone exchanges that are just a contract on Ethereum and only exchange tokens on the Etherum blockchain. What is the SEC going to do about those? And what would happen if some country in the world tokenizes their property. Say a cert…

Not really, because the major service that exchanges provide is to convert between crypto and cash. The tremendous growth seen in the industry over the last few years was fueled by an influx of cash into the crypto markets by way of exchanges. Dealing in cash means managing some sort of bank or brokerage account, which falls under federal purview.

Decentralized exchanges are... exactly not that. They only trade on-chain assets for on-chain assets. Fiat ramps are not part of what makes a decentralized exchange.

Re: U.S. SEC sees decentralized crypto platforms as exchanges

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, because the major service that exchanges provide is to convert between crypto and cash. The tremendous growth seen in the industry over the last few years was fueled by an influx of cash into the crypto markets by way of exchanges. Dealing in cash means managing some sort of bank or brokerage account, which falls under federal purview.

Decentralized exchanges are... exactly not that. They only trade on-chain assets for on-chain assets. Fiat ramps are not part of what makes a decentralized exchange.

This.
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